Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Human Evolution (re: If evolved from apes, why still apes?)
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 57 of 128 (453261)
02-01-2008 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Crooked to what standard
02-01-2008 4:51 PM


Icthus writes:
Either way, creationism has been accepted far longer and even now by far more people than evolutionism. By sheer numbers, let along the truth, creationism wins.
So on this basis, you believe that the sun goes round the earth, presumably, and that diseases are caused by evil spirits.
In your earlier post, you talked about the rudeness of evolutionists, but it cuts both ways, I can assure you, and we've all been called names and condemned to eternal damnation by your creationist brethren. Love thy enemy, indeed, but not if he's an evolutionist.
On the topic, do you understand what is ridiculous about it?
The main point isn't that, as a creationist, you clearly don't believe that you descend from other (extinct) species. What evolutionists often react strongly to is the misrepresentation of evolutionary theory by so many creationists.
If you're a young earth Christian creationist, for example, and I kept saying that you believed that mankind was made out of leaves by the angels 2,000 years ago, and then argued against that, I would be arguing against something I'd invented myself, a straw man, and you might well object, correctly, to my having misrepresented your beliefs.
That's so often the case when creationists argue against evolution.
"By all means disagree", we could say to the guy who started this thread, "but at least learn what it is you're disagreeing with."
The evolutionary view is that we descended from a common ancestor with the chimps, and going back further, the gorillas, and even further, the other apes, but all branches have evolved into the modern versions and are different from the common ancestors. There's no reason why the other branches should be extinct, which is why there are still apes. Just like there are lots of different members of the cat family who descend from a common ancestor, some species more recently related than others.
Welcome to EvC, and the culture wars!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Crooked to what standard, posted 02-01-2008 4:51 PM Crooked to what standard has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 60 of 128 (453303)
02-01-2008 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by skepticfaith
02-01-2008 6:59 PM


Re: Congratulations to Kakip!!
skepticfaith writes:
Here is something that I always wondered - is it plausible to think that another creature alive now can evolve into a new creature given a few million years to a creature more intelligent than a human ? Assume that the human race went extinct today ..
I think it's plausible, yes, although if you'd said "tens of millions of years" then it would be even more likely. If a species happened to take the road of rapidly increasing intelligence immediately after our extinction, then a few million years could be enough.
However, it's by no means inevitable, and the world could find itself in fifty million years with nothing as intelligent as us.
The fact that ourselves and the dolphins seem to have greatly increased brain size and intelligence separately argues in favour of your suggestion happening eventually. Big brains are hungry, and take up a lot of food, but if they enable the organism to bring in more food than they consume, they are a clear advantage.
But you also have to get the right kind and combinations of mutations, which may be why it's taken so much time and evolution to produce animals as intelligent as some of the modern mammals.
So the question is if we evolved so much from some apelike creature how come the chimps we see today are not much different from this proposed ancestor?
We don't really know how similar the chimps are to the ancestor, but I agree that they are probably much more so than us.
They've probably stayed in a similar environment, so natural selection would act as a more conservative force. It would preserve already good adaptions in them, whereas new characteristics that were beneficial in our new environment would have been selected for in our line.
They are basic tool users, so the common ancestor quite likely was, but tool use must've become much more central for our ancestors, so good tool using brains and hands help an individual to survive, produce more children and feed them, and therefore have more influence on the genome of the future population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by skepticfaith, posted 02-01-2008 6:59 PM skepticfaith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by skepticfaith, posted 02-01-2008 8:02 PM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 63 of 128 (453349)
02-01-2008 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by skepticfaith
02-01-2008 8:02 PM


Re: Congratulations to Kakip!!
How long did it take from ancestor of human and chimp to human?
All I can say is several million years, because experts keep revising it, and I've heard anything from four to eight million I think. Geneticists may be able to figure it out by mutation rates.
But remember, a lot of our intelligence had evolved before that. The things we value, like speech and our inventiveness are late, but chimps are far closer to us in intelligence than they are to lizards, for example, and mammals in general are intelligent, so if your speculative super intelligent creature evolved, it would most likely come from the mammals.
How would dolphins manipulate things though ?
I mean we use our hands - I can't imagine a dolphin being able to build something - what kind of adaptation will it need to make ?
I just mentioned dolphins because, like elephants and others, they show that intelligence increasing in mammals seems quite common, and happens along separate lines, making your speculative super being more likely. For dolphins to become toolmakers, returning to land would be the easiest way, and its easier for them than our fish ancestors, because they don't have to change their breathing system.
Tool making isn't everything. Maybe they philosophise. How do we know otherwise? Their brains are actually bigger than ours, I think, but then their bodies are as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by skepticfaith, posted 02-01-2008 8:02 PM skepticfaith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2008 8:03 PM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 70 of 128 (455553)
02-12-2008 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by RAZD
02-12-2008 8:03 PM


Dolphins
RAZD writes:
Can you do that?
No, but I can blow soap bubbles, and smoke rings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2008 8:03 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 83 of 128 (461772)
03-27-2008 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by helena
03-27-2008 6:17 PM


Re: IT S TOO ASHAME FOR PEOPLE WHO BELEVE THAT MAN EVOLVED FROM APES
alexandra writes:
But dont tell any frauds, cheatings,fakes AND ALSO DO NOT MAKE ANY STORY OF THAT.... becoz THESE VDEOS NCLUDE SCENTFC FACTS.
"Too ashame" isn't English, and superstition based assertions are not scientific facts. Come back when you've finished school.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by helena, posted 03-27-2008 6:17 PM helena has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024