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Author Topic:   Gorilla strength
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 241 of 287 (450932)
01-24-2008 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Eis_baer
04-26-2006 8:13 AM


Don’t be so arrogant

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Eis_baer, posted 04-26-2006 8:13 AM Eis_baer has not replied

  
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 242 of 287 (450933)
01-24-2008 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by LudoRephaim
04-26-2006 3:39 PM


No they aren’t be relistic. Although I am a wrestling fan and these guys ar epretty tough they are never nearly as strong as a silverback

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by LudoRephaim, posted 04-26-2006 3:39 PM LudoRephaim has not replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 243 of 287 (453354)
02-01-2008 10:47 PM


Has there been any threads on the infamous lion vs. tiger question or interspecies conflict? ;o

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by LudoRephaim, posted 02-02-2008 1:03 PM Earendil has not replied

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 244 of 287 (453494)
02-02-2008 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Earendil
02-01-2008 10:47 PM


i make u one
hello Earendil. Love your avatar
I'll make a thread on lion vs Tiger debate. Se you there...

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Earendil, posted 02-01-2008 10:47 PM Earendil has not replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 245 of 287 (457388)
02-23-2008 4:01 AM


Help with gauging strength.
I went to AllExperts.com, checked out this section that deals with Wildlife called the Interspecies conflict section. One of the "experts" said that tigers have the strength of 12 - 15 men.
I don't know much about strength, but especially since there have been no studies on tiger strength, isn't it incorrect to say "tigers have the strength of 12-15 men" or "a bear is overall stronger than a tiger". Surely, you must define the field of strength. Like a tiger has nowhere near the swatting power of the bear, but the bear has nowhere near the jumping capacity of the tiger.
Can anyone here specialising in strength, physiology(there have been a few erudite comments on this, like RAZD and psahafgi's posts) tell me about judging and comparing the strength of animals. Is it incorrect to say the tiger has the strength of 12-15 men?
Edited by Earendil, : No reason given.
Edited by Earendil, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by humanity, posted 03-01-2008 8:22 PM Earendil has replied

  
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 246 of 287 (458738)
03-01-2008 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Earendil
02-23-2008 4:01 AM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
Difficult to say with the strength. But to a part its surely true.
Like you said a tiger doesn’t have the swatting power of a bear and a bear not the jumping power of a tiger. Although a tiger is stronger than every man it doesn’t have the lifting power of weightlifter clear as they legs are not adobted for this.
However I even heard at a documentary that a tiger(male) is 20 times as strong as an average man. It is probably measured of the generally body strength. Not of one or two divisions of power but at generally.
There are some relistic backgrounds about it. Like one time it was said that a tiger i don’t knowmore how far but a very long distance was capable bulling a full grown horse which would require a human compared lifting a horse at your back over a wall. and at another case a tiger killing a very large prey a bull or a cow and tragged it away for miles. An attempt made by human doing it with similiar large animals 13 men where not able to do the same thing. so you can relie that tiger are extrememly strong. so out of some divisions it would make the power strength mentioned.
Not to mention that 12 or 15 men wouldn’t be able to beat a tiger(unless a trained tiger which doesn’t really fight agrressive) in a fight till the end if the tiger really likes to fight and win.
But sure the strength thing you always have to refer to where the strength regards to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Earendil, posted 02-23-2008 4:01 AM Earendil has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Earendil, posted 03-01-2008 8:38 PM humanity has replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 247 of 287 (458743)
03-01-2008 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by humanity
03-01-2008 8:22 PM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
A tiger can drag a horse twenty meters but it can't lift I think even a 100lbs? So it is inaccurate and nebelous to say that a tiger is overall stronger than a human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by humanity, posted 03-01-2008 8:22 PM humanity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by humanity, posted 03-02-2008 6:59 PM Earendil has not replied
 Message 249 by Earendil, posted 03-03-2008 7:09 AM Earendil has not replied

  
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 248 of 287 (458930)
03-02-2008 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Earendil
03-01-2008 8:38 PM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
Yes thats true that it isn’t stronger in every discipline. But its an unappropriated example with the lifting abilities as the whole body shape like the legs of the tiger are not right build for this. Is the body shape not so the legs can’t have the abilities either.
You can’t compare two different creatures its simple comparing different things. So don’t say a lion or a tiger isn’t stronger as a human generally. That you will see if you lean against it and you both start pushing against eachother requiring that the lion or tiger wants to fight seriously. I hope you don’t believe than you would win.
Because I don’t want to start the discussions which could emerge through this issue if a human could beat a WILD AGRESSIVE tiger WILLING to fight and win not like the show fights with the trained bears and cats. Because I want to talk about stuff here which is for adult people. And thisone issue isn’t for adult people with a normal sense.
Randomly I have seen a video today where a lion in captivity attacks his owner and three other people wheren’t able to realize him when they tried to pull him away the lion pulled them with and realized him a couple seconds later by itself. Than I have seen a video where a lion defends and jumps a hunter dude it was so wild and aggressive it shows you don’t stand any chance when a wildone attacks you, runs at you and jumps in high hills to you. Not like the fights with the trained tigers the Shamis and other martial arts profis did with bears. so if the tiger or lion wouldn’t be stronger i think it wouldn’t be so easy for him to bring down the humans with one move,pulling them away easily and even succeed when playing with there owner to hold them down.
Its true that they can’t lift weight but how??? As there body is not in the right shape for this. And like said they are stronger when it comes to pull animals like horses away and would kill you in a fight.
They are not all disciplines stronger as there body isn’t build for this. So therefore its also not correct to say they aren’t stronger as human. If you mess with them you will see and do you think it would help you that they aren’t as able of weight lifting like us?
Do you think that will matter than?
And I hope you aren’t one of the attendants here which consider seriously a human staying a chance in a serious fight against a wild tiger attacking violently and serious(jumping at you,hit with its paws).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Earendil, posted 03-01-2008 8:38 PM Earendil has not replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 249 of 287 (458982)
03-03-2008 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Earendil
03-01-2008 8:38 PM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
Humanity, I think you're jumping to conslusions here. I said "So it is inaccurate and nebelous to say that a tiger is overall stronger than a human.". Which makes perfect sense because it can't lift more than a human being, it isn't built to do so.
"You can’t compare two different creatures its simple comparing different things." - This is what I've been stressing in my last two posts.
"So don’t say a lion or a tiger isn’t stronger as a human generally." - I am saying this, can a tiger lift more than a human? No, so it isn't stronger GENERALLY or OVERALL. A tiger would destroy a human in a dragging contest. I won't get into the "a tiger would destroy a human in a fight or a human would destroy a tiger in a fight" ad nauseam.
"Its true that they can’t lift weight but how??? As there body is not in the right shape for this." - Our bodies aren't built for movements like dragging or flying or slithering.
"So therefore its also not correct to say they aren’t stronger as human. you mess with them you will see and do you think it would help you that they aren’t as able of weight lifting like us?" - We're talking about strength. Not fighting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Earendil, posted 03-01-2008 8:38 PM Earendil has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by humanity, posted 03-03-2008 5:50 PM Earendil has replied

  
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 250 of 287 (459081)
03-03-2008 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Earendil
03-03-2008 7:09 AM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
Good Earendil I am glad that you don’t want to get into the fight things. Again the statements you make so far are true.
But i mentioned also already that a tiger can’t lift as much weight like a human. I know what you wanted to say.
You say it now a humand body is not appropriated for dragging heavy things. A tigers body shape is not appropriated for liftings. You see its a discussions which hardly comes to a result.
What is also sure when it comes to swatting force a tiger has much more as a human. Maybe thats also included in their charges with the tiger 12 -15 x stronger than man as when they would fight and the tiger attacks the human brings him down as its force in this decision is much more as the human ones. Including maybe with such things the conclusion of the tiger 12 -15x stronger as man. I think you should ask one of them personally how they charge it.
We're talking about strength. Not fighting -hmmh true but that comes to an interesting question of mine. If that meanings are so different anyway and not to say the tiger isn’t stronger why the tiger than will win the fight? If it isn’t stronger. That i would like to know. Why when tiger even playing with their owners push them down easiyl thw owner has no chance to come up if the tiger doesn’t want?
But you made a good point as in the earlier posts the power and lifting comparison of Gorillas,weightlifer and normal human was discussed and already said you can’t say more power generally. Than I want to say now it isn’t to say either after the conclusions a tiger 12x stronger than average man and so just 2x times stronger than the World Strongest Man. Because from the whole body and whole force the world strongest men also aren’t 5 or 6x stronger as the average men. They are that stronger in there divisions thats clear and would kick any normal mans ass. But not from the body generall either its about there training.
You see towards to many issues but no solutions. Like i said it would be better you contact one of the people at this site you read this and ask them how they conclude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Earendil, posted 03-03-2008 7:09 AM Earendil has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Earendil, posted 03-04-2008 7:57 AM humanity has replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 251 of 287 (459136)
03-04-2008 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by humanity
03-03-2008 5:50 PM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
"You see its a discussions which hardly comes to a result" - This is what i've been stressing my last three posts, until some scientist specialising in physiology conducts research on this topic. But there are more dire questions in need of answers than this, with the tiger being so endangered.
"hmmh true but that comes to an interesting question of mine. If that meanings are so different anyway and not to say the tiger isn’t stronger why the tiger than will win the fight?" - This question can be easily answered, a human can lift more and perhaps KICK with more force(although I doubt a humans lower body is as strong as a tigers forequarters) ergo a tiger cannot be overall stronger than a human.
'Than I want to say now it isn’t to say either after the conclusions a tiger 12x stronger than average man and so just 2x times stronger than the World Strongest Man. Because from the whole body and whole force the world strongest men also aren’t 5 or 6x stronger as the average men. They are that stronger in there divisions thats clear and would kick any normal mans ass. But not from the body generall either its about there training.' - Neither are tigers 12 times stronger than an average man. I heard of story where a tiger dragged a gaur 13 feet(I think), later 13 men attempted to do so but failed. It is correct to say that perhaps tigers has dragging capacity of 13-15 men or whatever. But is it certainly not 12 times stronger overall than an average man.
"You see towards to many issues but no solutions. Like i said it would be better you contact one of the people at this site you read this and ask them how they conclude." - I'm not proposing any solutions, I'm not a scientist. I asked in another post for someone to enlighten. I think its already concluded.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by humanity, posted 03-03-2008 5:50 PM humanity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by humanity, posted 03-04-2008 9:29 PM Earendil has replied

  
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 252 of 287 (459226)
03-04-2008 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Earendil
03-04-2008 7:57 AM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
Probably true that it is already included. And yes so often indicated to it its probably so that they meaned through this that a tiger dragged a gaur what 13 men wheren’t able to do. And its probably also the tiger forequarters being that strong allowing it to drag prey so far and therefore like you said superior in a fight. And right doesn’t make an overall times strenght but still an exteme afford and very powerful cat.
That with the lifting is impossible for a tiger as it doesn’t stand for a long time at his two legs like us human and at four legs its DIFFICULT. And if it would stand all the time at two legs like us its still the shape of the hands which doesn’t make it possible to lift something. But we wouldn’t know what a tiger would be able to lift is the hands also would be shaped like ours with the same possibility of movement and if it would walk upward. And so you may not forget the tiger has just its mouth where it is able to lift something up and hold its clear that it can’t be succesful so.
Think about if you go down at your knees don’t use your arms and want to lift something with your mout you will also not be able to lift the same weight as you lift with your hands when you are up.
Yeah I know accept some people which trained for years have shown doing it carry things with the mouth even being down and stand up. But also not the same weight like weightlifter normal do.
Like you said for some divisions our body is not shaped for someothers the tigers but what i said now with lifting by mouth is true.
so you are not a scientist but you seem to be interested and like animals as you posted a lion picture at your profile and said its important to solve the question why the tiger is endangered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Earendil, posted 03-04-2008 7:57 AM Earendil has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Earendil, posted 03-05-2008 5:55 AM humanity has replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 253 of 287 (459261)
03-05-2008 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by humanity
03-04-2008 9:29 PM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
"And its probably also the tiger forequarters being that strong allowing it to drag prey so far and therefore like you said superior in a fight." - I didn't say anything about a fight. I find it quite childish when people compare a human and animal X's fighting ability.
"That with the lifting is impossible for a tiger as it doesn’t stand for a long time at his two legs like us human and at four legs its DIFFICULT. And if it would stand all the time at two legs like us its still the shape of the hands which doesn’t make it possible to lift something. But we wouldn’t know what a tiger would be able to lift is the hands also would be shaped like ours with the same possibility of movement and if it would walk upward. And so you may not forget the tiger has just its mouth where it is able to lift something up and hold its clear that it can’t be succesful so.
Think about if you go down at your knees don’t use your arms and want to lift something with your mout you will also not be able to lift the same weight as you lift with your hands when you are up. " - Yes, a tiger isn't built for lifting and a human isn't built for dragging, haven't we gone through this already?
"so you are not a scientist but you seem to be interested and like animals as you posted a lion picture at your profile and said its important to solve the question why the tiger is endangered." - Most people know full well why the tiger is endangered, partially because tigers hunted for the use of their body parts in traditional Asian medicines (TAM). Eg. The analgesic effect of tiger bone has been observed in laboratory animals with induced arthritis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by humanity, posted 03-04-2008 9:29 PM humanity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by humanity, posted 03-05-2008 7:48 PM Earendil has replied

  
humanity
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 01-24-2008


Message 254 of 287 (459313)
03-05-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Earendil
03-05-2008 5:55 AM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
There we aren’t so different because I also think compare human and animal fight ability childish and unreal. It just because it was brought up so often before and i thought.... I didn’t bring it up but i know than i also shouldn’t continue to talk about it. At least you are normal and agree with like all the people before that the thinking of this guy brought up the issue takes childish subjects and have to return to reality.
But with the being endangered of the tiger. I agree with it to a part and i know about of course but i don’t think this is the main reason. And also not the only reason. But for sure a big reason. hmmh but a lot of other reasons too which are i believe more significant.
Still not to forget there are big cats which are even more endangered as the tiger. Should be taken care about them too. The Indian Lion as example went nearly extinct and is now longer to meet in parks but not anymore and wilderness. Like one African Species Lion went extinct already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Earendil, posted 03-05-2008 5:55 AM Earendil has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Earendil, posted 03-06-2008 4:27 AM humanity has not replied

  
Earendil
Junior Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 11
Joined: 01-27-2008


Message 255 of 287 (459344)
03-06-2008 4:27 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by humanity
03-05-2008 7:48 PM


Re: Help with gauging strength.
I said this(" Most people know full well why the tiger is endangered, partially because tigers hunted for the use of their body parts in traditional Asian medicines (TAM). Eg. The analgesic effect of tiger bone has been observed in laboratory animals with induced arthritis."). The illegal trade of tiger parts is partially responsible for the tigers endangerment.
Overall as a species, the tiger is the most endangered cat. The most endangered tiger subspecies the South China tiger are numbered at only 26 individuals?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by humanity, posted 03-05-2008 7:48 PM humanity has not replied

  
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