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Author Topic:   20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum
AdminNosy
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Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 106 of 305 (454325)
02-06-2008 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Beretta
02-06-2008 10:26 AM


A debate site
Beretta, this is a debate site. You are expected to present your views in your own words. You must be prepared to have them ripped apart. That is the point.
You are also expected to support your statements.
If you are uninterested or unable in doing these things then this isn't the place for you. If you continue as you have you will lose your privileges here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Beretta, posted 02-06-2008 10:26 AM Beretta has not replied

Percy
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From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 107 of 305 (454331)
02-06-2008 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Beretta
02-06-2008 10:26 AM


Re: Ignorant crap
Hi Beretta,
You're right, the details of ID theory are not the topic of this thread, but I think at least an outline is appropriate in order to develop a better picture of what would be taught in a creation/ID curriculum. For instance, do you think that in 20 years ID advocates would still be saying that the designer and how he worked cannot be known? Will concepts like specified complexity and irreducible complexity have been given a scientific underpinning? Or will ID still be teaching that the wonder and complexity of nature is all the evidence needed to conclude design.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Beretta, posted 02-06-2008 10:26 AM Beretta has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 108 of 305 (454340)
02-06-2008 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Coyote
02-06-2008 11:40 AM


The primary goal of ID is to change science completely.
True.
We are only attempting to reverse the grip of Darwinism upon science. Darwinism is false and the same is Atheist ideology packaged as science.
Can you imagine what science would be like if everything had to conform to a fundamentalist and theistic "scientific" method?
Fundamentalism Christianity, like Atheist Evolutionism, accepts microevolution. Science has always disproven any type of evolution. Genuine science presupposes Theism as true. Darwinism has ruined science. We intend to rid science of Darwinism and return it to its former glory. In other words, we intend to banish the voices of Fundamentalism and Atheism from having any say in science.
Ray Martinez, Creationist-Designist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2008 11:40 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2008 1:44 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 109 of 305 (454342)
02-06-2008 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 1:30 PM


quote:
Fundamentalism Christianity, like Atheist Evolutionism, accepts microevolution. Science has always disproven any type of evolution. Genuine science presupposes Theism as true. Darwinism has ruined science. We intend to rid science of Darwinism and return it to its former glory. In other words, we intend to banish the voices of Fundamentalism and Atheism from having any say in science.
Sorry to have to break this to you, but you are delusional.
You are the voice of fundamentalism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 1:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 2:59 PM Coyote has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 110 of 305 (454343)
02-06-2008 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 1:30 PM


CFO writes:
In other words, we intend to banish the voices of Fundamentalism and Atheism from having any say in science.
Ray Martinez, Creationist-Designist.
Do you have a schedule for this? Will you take away the passports of America's scientists, or just let them leave to enjoy the fast increasing wealth of countries like China, and help put those countries quickly ahead in the technology race while Americans are busy praying to an ancient middle-eastern tribal God?
And do you think your triumph will be soon? Should we start preparing to receive refugees here in Europe now?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 111 of 305 (454346)
02-06-2008 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Beretta
02-06-2008 3:23 AM


Re: one thing is clear
Oh well I must have missed something -where's your proof that simpler life forms categorically had to have evolved into more complex life forms?
Your gibberish has nothing to do with any claim that I have ever actually made.
Yes explain how, if naturalistic processes explain our arrival, we could have originated from something other than the supposed primordial soup after it rained on the rocks for millions of years?
Oh, I see, we didn't come from pond scum after all; we came from the minerals washed out of the rocks over those millions of years; in other words our earliest ancestor is actually a rock!
Your gibberish has nothing to do with any claim that I have ever actually made.
No, real observable scientifically provable processes vs pure imagination actually.
Your gibberish has nothing to do with any fact about the real world.
You want to try again?

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 Message 82 by Beretta, posted 02-06-2008 3:23 AM Beretta has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 112 of 305 (454348)
02-06-2008 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Coyote
02-06-2008 1:44 PM


Coyote writes:
Sorry to have to break this to you, but you are delusional.
You are the voice of fundamentalism
The evidence says that you are:
Ray originally writes:
Fundamentalism Christianity, like Atheist Evolutionism, accepts microevolution. Science has always disproven any type of evolution. Genuine science presupposes Theism as true. Darwinism has ruined science. We intend to rid science of Darwinism and return it to its former glory. In other words, we intend to banish the voices of Fundamentalism and Atheism from having any say in science.
Since you actually believe apes morphed into men why wouldn't you think I was delusional? Based on said belief concerning apes and men, I am glad that you think I am delusional. The approval of your kind would certainly make me delusional.
Ray Martinez, Creationist-Designist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2008 1:44 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Rahvin, posted 02-06-2008 3:27 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 115 by FliesOnly, posted 02-06-2008 3:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 116 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2008 3:36 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 113 of 305 (454350)
02-06-2008 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Beretta
02-06-2008 10:26 AM


Re: Ignorant crap
Beretta writes:
I have no interest in giving you or flies only an ID hypothesis.
And why, exactly, is that Beretta? Could it be that none exists, and you simply cannot (or will) not admit as much?
Beretta writes:
Go'n look on an ID website.
Come on Beretta...with the copious amounts of stuff you write, surely you can find the time to provide us what should be three or four sentences (at most), that spell out the testable, falsifiable I.D. hypothesis.
Beretta writes:
I just happen to like and support what I have read on the topic.
You "like it", I would guess, because it requires no intelligence to understand. You "like it", I suppose, because it does not require you to actually learn and study a vast array of topics. You "like it" because it's an answer that does not require you to think (hell, it actually depends on you not to think).
And my hypothesis would be that you "support it" for religious reasons.
Beretta writes:
Are you pretending you have never heard the Id hypothesis...
Nope, I am most definitely not pretending...I have NEVER heard (or seen) a scientific hypothesis that addresses I.D.
Beretta writes:
...or are you asking me to copy it so that you can rip it apart?
Sure...copy it and provide the link. That would be nice. Why have you resisted for so long? As for ripping it apart...well, I cannot say for sure, since I have yet to ever see one. Unlike cdesign proponentsists, I'll actually wait for the evidence to come in before I reach a conclusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Beretta, posted 02-06-2008 10:26 AM Beretta has not replied

Rahvin
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Message 114 of 305 (454351)
02-06-2008 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 2:59 PM


Since you actually believe apes morphed into men why wouldn't you think I was delusional? Based on said belief concerning apes and men, I am glad that you think I am delusional. The approval of your kind would certainly make me delusional.
What would the world look like after 20 years of Creationism/ID being taught in schools?
Ray makes me think the movie "Idiocracy" might not be so far off the mark, after all.
Nobody suggests apes "morphed" into anything, Ray. You've been around here long enough that if you're still parading that sad strawman of evolution, you're either deliberately being dishonest, you're ignoring everything anyone ever says to you, or you're incapable of comprehending even the most trivial claims of evolution.
How's that paper coming, Ray? I'm sure you still think you're going to topple the Theory of Evolution from the position of the most accurate explanation for observed evidence, but from what I see, you've got about as much a chance as a kindergartner.

When you know you're going to wake up in three days, dying is not a sacrifice. It's a painful inconvenience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 2:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 5:30 PM Rahvin has not replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 115 of 305 (454352)
02-06-2008 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 2:59 PM


Cold Foreign Object writes:
Since you actually believe apes morphed into men why wouldn't you think I was delusional? Based on said belief concerning apes and men, I am glad that you think I am delusional.
Find ONE...ONE evolutionary biologists that makes this claim...ONE. Otherwise retract. But we both know that you can do neither.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 2:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 116 of 305 (454353)
02-06-2008 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 2:59 PM


CFO writes:
Since you actually believe apes morphed into men why wouldn't you think I was delusional? Based on said belief concerning apes and men, I am glad that you think I am delusional.
Given your view that chimps and ourselves don't share a common ancestor, will the study of the genomes of primates be banned in the brave new world of U.S. education that you're describing?
You're going to have to hide stuff like this from the kids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-OkzTUDVA
Stuff that shows that you have less than one in a million chance of being right, Ray.
Meaning that you are delusional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 2:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 5:40 PM bluegenes has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 117 of 305 (454370)
02-06-2008 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Rahvin
02-06-2008 3:27 PM


What would the world look like after 20 years of Creationism/ID being taught in schools?
It would be infinetly more intelligent, honest and moral. Darwinism is fraud from top to bottom. Scholars have always known that evolution is false. They failed to educate the world early on which allowed Darwinism to succeed. They decided to be gentle in breaking the bad news that evolution is false. But since 1996 scholars have decided to abandon the gentle approach.
Nobody suggests apes "morphed" into anything, Ray. You've been around here long enough that if you're still parading that sad strawman of evolution....
Human evolution says apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years. Evolution says mankind descended from apes and was not created by God from the clay-like ground. Human evolution is the most basic claim of Darwinism, you should know that.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Coyote, posted 02-06-2008 5:53 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 118 of 305 (454372)
02-06-2008 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by bluegenes
02-06-2008 3:36 PM


Given your view that chimps and ourselves don't share a common ancestor, will the study of the genomes of primates be banned in the brave new world of U.S. education that you're describing?
You're going to have to hide stuff like this from the kids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-OkzTUDVA
Stuff that shows that you have less than one in a million chance of being right, Ray.
Commentary presupposes that genome similarity indicates proof of descent from chimpanzees. The same is an interpretation of said evidence based on the supposition that evolution has occurred, and based on the supposition that Genesis is false. Of course, suppositions are not evidence but filters that interpret evidence.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2008 3:36 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-06-2008 6:41 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 216 by bluegenes, posted 02-11-2008 8:11 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 217 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-11-2008 8:20 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 229 by nator, posted 02-12-2008 6:51 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 119 of 305 (454374)
02-06-2008 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Cold Foreign Object
02-06-2008 5:30 PM


quote:
Darwinism is fraud from top to bottom. Scholars have always known that evolution is false. They failed to educate the world early on which allowed Darwinism to succeed. They decided to be gentle in breaking the bad news that evolution is false. But since 1996 scholars have decided to abandon the gentle approach.
Actually, religiously-motivated individuals are becoming increasingly strident in their opposition to the theory of evolution since the losses in the U.S. Supreme Court. And they are getting farther from reality. Your post is a classic example.
Creation "science" was blown out of the water in the late 1980s, leading to the current push for intelligent design. That has now been blown out of the water as well. The courts have recognized what science has long known.
Neither of these two ideas is science, nor were they ever accepted by mainstream science (99.5% of working scientists). They have always been pushed by religious believers and a very small percentage of scientists who are also religiously-motivated (see the Statements of Faith of the some of the creationist websites for example).
That is why your comments that you and your comrads are going to force your theology down our throats, and there is nothing we can do about it, are so ludicrous.
You can't get your religion into the school systems because it is not science no matter how hard you posture, and everybody knows it.
That is why the science curriculum will be free of the creation/ID nonsense 20 years hence.
Looks like your only choice is a coup and installation of a religious dictatorship under a prophet. Is that what you are advocating?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 5:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-06-2008 7:35 PM Coyote has replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 120 of 305 (454378)
02-06-2008 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Cold Foreign Object
02-05-2008 11:47 PM


Re: one thing is clear
We intend to reverse the corruption of the U.S. Constitution from the stranglehold of anti-religious fanatics and teach school children that God is the Creator responsible for the observation of design seen in reality. The pro-Atheism corruption of the Constitution will be vacated wholistically one day in the semi-near future, and there is nothing you can do about it.
The Constitution is the way it is because the Founding Father's saw you religious weenies coming and put up one hell of a roadblock in your way.
I did not swear my allegiance to this document and get shot at for it just to have a bunch of right-wing religious bloodmongers take it away from me. If you want war, Ray, this is exactly what we will give you.

This message is a reply to:
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