Evolutionary superiority

No. The person wilfully misrepresenting my statement, i.e. you.(Unless you are genuinely dumb enough to think that the crazy gibberish you made up in your head is what I really meant, in which case you have my sympathy.)

Dr.Nope. It was perhaps, one of the straws that broke the camels back, so to speak, and led to this : You have my apology.

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" If a body don't wanna hear what you're sayin it don't matter much how you say it" Some hillbilly.

Bluejay The truth is the truth, but not always the whole truth.I spent a lot of time here, reading these debates, and did not seriously consider signing up until I tripped over the thread on writing skills.The reason I signed up was cause of my emotional response to that thread. I was pissed! That that was the intention of the writers I do not know, however it was the result. So, I got trolled, I allowed my emotions to rule the day, and found myself, eventually, doing exactly what pissed me off in the first place.That is the motivation for the apology. In my view it is unprofitable for a person to let any part of the process of drawing conclusions become exclusive. What I did, in my view, was wrong. Yep. Well, almost, There needs be at least a sprinkle of truth or there is no emotional response. I am absolutely blown away that anyone would deny the influence their emotions have on their choices.To me that seems the same as denying a need for air. It does lead to some humorous moments, but it can easily become a very dark game.Just a sprinkle?Seems to me that if a person holds a belief that they are correct about something, anything, and someone else is incorrect, that the holding of that belief requires a feeling of superiority, at least on that topic.But what do I know? Or anyone else for that matter?

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" If a body don't wanna hear what you're sayin it don't matter much how you say it" Some hillbilly.

One day I might learn more big words. Then I'll be able to call this what it is in Latin or something, but for now, in hillbilly, it seems a bit over the top.To label right wing fundamentalism as Anti-science, that is. Seems a bit inflammatory in nature to me. Around here they are teaching kids that this universe and everything in it just sort of happened, randomly. Nothing began to expand and this process continued until now. Nothing followed the laws of physics and became something that expanded and became something else. I'm not sure why this sounds like MAGIC to me. It may be that I don't actually understand what they are actually teaching or perhaps they don't actually understand what they are teaching, or perhaps the problem lies in what they are actually teaching. The message around here seems to be that all "this" ( you know, all this everything) just happened, no cause or explanation necessary, cause its magic.Me, I'd be much more comfortable with what I think is the truth, that no one really knows for sure WTF is going on. Not really.Exactly.I say "Lets teach kids how to do science,how to draw conclusions, not just tell them someone else's conclusions." Lets quit pretending science tells us what happened. Science, the way I see it, doesn't actually do anything. People DO science. Those people have ideas about what MAY have happened. There still remains much mystery in this universe.Or maybe I just have a tiny little mind and there ain't no room for all that stuff in there.

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The years tell what the days never knew.

Hillbilly, I hope you realize that we get nowhere if we are constantly re-inventing the wheel with every new generation. Not every school child needs to re-discover Calculus, Maxwell’s Equations or Relativity on their own. We learn from the conclusions others have already drawn. Some of the brighter kids will test those original conclusions to see for themselves, of course.This has been going on for hundreds of years now and most of these conclusions have remained intact. Those that have been found in error have been discarded and science advances forward with new conclusions. The great majority of our scientific advances, however, have been built by extending and using these conclusions of others.Evolution is one of the conclusions that has stood up to these repeated tests over the last 150 years. And it has given us great advances in genetics, agriculture, ecology, medicine, etc.The Big Bang is another.Please understand that no competent Science teacher will convey a story like “the universe came from nothing, everything in the universe came from nothing . ” or anything similar. Only religion says some god poofed it into existence by magic. Science does not say that.[aside]
Knowing your penchant to obscure what you find as unpleasant ideas with nitpicky syntax quibbles, let me say it first: I know Science does not say anything. Scientists do.
[/aside]All our data, all our evidence (and there is a whole lot of it for those who care to look) indicate that about 13+- billion years ago the universe was very small (smaller than the size of a proton) and has been expanding ever since. Where it came from we do not know. How it came into being we do not know. Yet.Any other story you may have heard about what Science says of where the universe came from or how it came into being is either a gross misunderstanding of what you heard or a misrepresentation (willful or from ignorance) of the facts we do know.I guess there is a third scenario. All other stories about the birth of this universe are the fairy tales of superstitious religious wishful thinking . and there are thousands of them. And from the facts we do know, these fanciful stories can all be ignored.abe: Just to tie into the actual subject of this thread, yes, I am feeling quite superior at this point.Edited by AZPaul3, : To make the point.Edited by AZPaul3, : Stupid syntax errors.

Hi AZPaul3, Hold on tight. So if I say "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Even though the universe exists and I am here presenting this message it is just a fairy tale as it is wishful thinking. In other words a bunch of hogwash.But you with all your education can say in the long ago 13+ billion years ago there was this small something that was in a place that did not exist yet and we don't know where it came from or why. It just appeared from nowhere in nothing and started to expand into the universe we see today.Can you step back for a moment and explain to this dumb dirt farmer how that is supposed to be more acceptable than me saying God created the heaven and the earth.Maybe I don't know where my God came from.But you can't tell me where yours came from either.Maybe that was my God. He He.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Yep. Well the "small something" was the entire universe and the "place that did not exist yet" is a gross misunderstanding of the concept, but, other than those quibbles ... Yep. uhh...you forgot to read my words.

quote:

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Where it came from we do not know. How it came into being we do not know. Yet.

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This does not say "It just appeared from nowhere in nothing and started to expand into the universe we see today." It says,

quote:

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Where it came from we do not know. How it came into being we do not know. Yet.

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Absolutely. Do you think there are scientists who disagree with that? Our great great grandchildren will probably be saying the same thing, although they'll know a hell of a lot more than we do.

Hi AZPaul3 Son Goku told me it was about the size of a pea, in the 400+ thread in which we discussed it.Message 295 in:
http://< !--UB EvC Forum: Before Big Bang God or Singularity -->http://EvC Forum: Before Big Bang God or Singularity -->EvC Forum: Before Big Bang God or Singularity< !--UE-->What ever it was it had to be someplace or it had to be in an absence of anything unless it was in Hawking's imaginary time.

quote:

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Where it came from we do not know. How it came into being we do not know. Yet.
  —AZPaul3

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OK you don't know where it came from.
You don't know how it came into being.
You don't know what it appeared in.
You don't know if it came from something.
You don't know if it came from an absence of anything.(Ex nihilo )All you know is it was. Because you have been told so.All that sounds like a fairy tale to me.
But you want me to believe it just happened because you say it happened the way you say it happened and we are here so it must have happened the way you say it happened.Yep that is just what this thread is all about. Message 260Considering your Message 262 and the above from msg 260.
I diagnose you with a severe case of superiority complex.God Bless you need it,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Well, that, and because all the evidence that the same science that routinely cures leukemia and brings us TIVO can muster shows that to be the case. I'm feeling pretty humbled by all that science - my contributions to knowledge are just about reducing sludging in crude oils and an easier-to-handle clay stabilizer for "oil-bearing subterranean earthern formations."

I think I grasp the basics, something that is expanding now likely was smaller in the past? Something along those lines? Now, other than the time frame,which brings to my mind the question ........" Is time the same now as it was then?(13 billion years ago? ) "thats pretty much what I said here :Unless, let me ask you. What contains a universe of energy and/or matter, is smaller than a proton and is not a proton? As far as I'm aware this describes nothing we know of. Right, like I said : Now don't misunderstand me, I not suggesting that this theory isn't possible, or even likely, just that it seems a bit fanciful to me that it happened all by itself.I guess my tiny little mind needs a God to hang on to.

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The years tell what the days never knew.

Well, there probably are but thats not really my point, that some people are convinced that some mysteries that have not been solved, have been solved. Or perhaps that some mysteries that have been solved have not.Much earlier in this thread you said: If you don't mind, it seems that you have this impression that Christianity is somehow elite and exclusive, no? See myself, I see it as the opposite, inclusive and, what's the opposite of elite? Anyway, in my view, it's God who is elite and then there is the rest of us.If Christianity was a corporation the recruiting department would have, by far, the most bodies. How is this desire to include any who will hear seen as elite or exclusive?I don't get it.

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The years tell what the days never knew.

Now , I don't want to start a big ruckus but this , I don't think, is exactly accurate, is it? It's not really the "same" science, is it? Are we not speaking of theoretical science here? Mostly mathematical models isn't it? As opposed to the practical, or material type of science that cures diseases and such.Or does someone have a singularity, on a table, in a lab somewhere? Me, I'm feeling pretty humbled by the God that made all that science possible. And mine include contributions toward a safer and more efficient use of that oil after its refined. Cool eh, connections.

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The years tell what the days never knew.

Not really. A nice amateur telescope set-up, these days, is enough to show that the universe is expanding. The various surveys that are measuring the microwave universe really do measure something from way out there - repeatably. The theoretical-sounding calculations of how much hydrogen, helium, lithium, and beryllium came from The Bang are supported very well indeed by observation in the lab and in space both. The "material kind of science" that clocks speeding cars and lets us generate electricity from uranium fissioning....

I'm not trying to nitpick here but, would it not be more accurate to say that we see things in the universe are moving apart? We don't see the things in the universe expanding , do we? We don't actually know that the space the universe occupies is expanding, do we? Just that things are moving apart, yes, no?

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The years tell what the days never knew.