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Author Topic:   20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum
CTD
Member (Idle past 5896 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 284 of 305 (455959)
02-14-2008 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by RickJB
02-14-2008 8:33 AM


Re: Read carefully
quote:
Science works, no matter how much you try to deny it.
I expect the purpose of this false accusation is to provoke a response. But I'm not a mind reader. What kind of response are you looking for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by RickJB, posted 02-14-2008 8:33 AM RickJB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-14-2008 5:44 PM CTD has replied

CTD
Member (Idle past 5896 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 287 of 305 (455967)
02-14-2008 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by FliesOnly
02-14-2008 7:34 AM


Re: Keep it
quote:
This thread is about the I.D. curriculum 20 years down the road. It's based on the premise that I.D. advocates, like yourself, continually claim the scientific validity of your concept.
The I.D. advocates who are being discussed are very much unlike myself. My policy is to make no compromises with untruth. For example, I do not misapply the term "theory" just because others have done so.
quote:
Asking you to provide to us a piece of information that is the very foundation of science is certainly a reasonable request.
I am amused that you refer to the I.D. hypothesis as "the very foundation of science". Nevertheless, I don't intend to be goaded into breaking my word.
It would have been reasonable to request the hypothesis. What is utterly unreasonable and unacceptable is what has happened: There was a false statement made about my capacity to produce an hypothesis. When was this statement made? When was the request made? I have made it clear that I'm not going to do this.
quote:
If your inability to supply such information somehow or another makes you feel picked upon, or makes you feel that it's asked only in an attempt to make you look bad...well, that's just tough shit for you.
Why do you misportray the situation? Anyone here is perfectly capable of following the link(s) to the transcript and obtaining all the information they need to piece together the I.D. hypothesis. It may very likely be stated there verbatim - I don't remember.
Why should I tolerate false accusations? It's lame enough to ask for something that's readily available to everyone here. To accuse me of failing before I even have a chance is inexcusable. To imply that I can't work a web browser when you wouldn't even be aware of my existence in that case... utterly irrational. The argument is self-defeating and thus can only be meant as an insult.
I copy. Loud & clear. Over.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by FliesOnly, posted 02-14-2008 7:34 AM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by FliesOnly, posted 02-15-2008 9:49 AM CTD has not replied

CTD
Member (Idle past 5896 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 288 of 305 (455970)
02-14-2008 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by New Cat's Eye
02-14-2008 5:44 PM


Huh?
quote:
How can you say that science doesn't work when you're sitting at a fucking computer communicating over an internet forum!!!?
How ignorant!
et tu CS?
What is it, a reflex with you people?
I'm not very impressed. You could have come up with a fresh new false accusation if you had tried.
And your phrasing could stand improvement. It's pretty stupid to ask me how I can say something I never said.
I know: 'It's the thought that counts'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-14-2008 5:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by RickJB, posted 02-15-2008 4:59 AM CTD has not replied

CTD
Member (Idle past 5896 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 290 of 305 (455973)
02-14-2008 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Coyote
02-13-2008 4:22 PM


Re: ID hypothesis
quote:
The reason there are no ID hypotheses is that ID is religion in disguise. Its basis is fundamentalist Christian belief, not science.
Having no scientific basis, all the IDers can do is try to knock down the theory of evolution in the hope that they can raise doubts about science in general and the theory of evolution in particular, and based on those doubts, they hope to come up with some converts to their real religious beliefs. And if they can cast doubt on all of "materialism and its cultural legacies" so much the better.
But when asked to propose an ID curriculum (the topic of this thread) there is no response. There is only anti-evolutionary propaganda masquerading as pseudo-science in the hope of fooling somebody.
But hey, that's good enough! Let's teach it in the schools anyway.
*yawn*
Same old straw man the evolutionists have been trotting out for the entire thread.
I'm waiting for just one to have enough guts to look I.D. in the eyes.
Your tactics betray that you expect defeat, and you may well help fulfill that prediction. What happens when a person reads this kind of thing and is subsequently exposed to actual I.D.? Will they not see the contrast?
This whole topic's a joke. The difference in classrooms would be nearly imperceptible. Evolutionism would be preached during valuable time that should be devoted to teaching biology, history, etc. The only difference is that during abiogenesis week, students would be allowed to consider alternatives.
Now this would entail a bit of shuffling. Abiogenesis week would be moved to the tail end. Can't have students start out questioning something so fundamental to the religion, and then proceed to indoctrinate them with falsehood. No, falsehood first - then the one lie they're allowed to question.
The fact that this one lie must be securely safeguarded against any questioning betrays that evolutionism is a house of cards. Evolutionists are even more acutely aware of this vulnerability than IDers, as this thread demonstrates.
I should make clear that although the difference in classrooms would be nearly imperceptible, the difference in the students might not. It could be just as you fear: once they're permitted to openly question one aspect of your religion, the rest of your doctrines are in great jeopardy. Your antiscience could suffer a major drop in popularity, and your capacity to censor scientists could disappear entirely.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2008 1:34 AM CTD has not replied
 Message 292 by Modulous, posted 02-15-2008 3:54 AM CTD has not replied
 Message 294 by RickJB, posted 02-15-2008 5:02 AM CTD has not replied
 Message 302 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-15-2008 5:21 PM CTD has not replied
 Message 303 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-15-2008 5:30 PM CTD has not replied

CTD
Member (Idle past 5896 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 298 of 305 (456113)
02-15-2008 2:42 PM


A link to the testimony of Michael Behe was provided by Trixie. Nothing I have said about ID is contradicted by him. Absolutely nothing. On the contrary, much of what I have said is confirmed.
Yet I'm told I don't know what ID is about. Right... It's claimed my ability to distinguish between "Natural Selection" and artificial selection prevents me from knowing what "Natural Selection" means. I'm told time and time again I don't know what evolutionism is about. What's next? I shouldn't be the least bit surprised to be told I don't know what my own thoughts are.
I maintain that it's not difficult to see what ID is about. Neither is it difficult to see that it bears very little resemblance to any of the straw men which have been constructed hereabouts.
The real questions are
1.) Why are evolutionists terrified of ID?
2.) Why can't they tackle the real ID instead of misportraying it?
I trust the answers to both of these questions are obvious, and any further elaboration would amount to patronizingly insulting the reader's intelligence.
My prediction for the imaginary situation that is the topic of this thread could be wrong. It's not likely we'll find out. Note that from the very first they have tried to give the impression that ID = CS, although when it suits them they have no trouble distinguishing ID from CS. So clever.

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Vacate, posted 02-15-2008 3:11 PM CTD has not replied
 Message 300 by PaulK, posted 02-15-2008 3:18 PM CTD has not replied
 Message 301 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-15-2008 5:17 PM CTD has not replied
 Message 304 by Coyote, posted 02-15-2008 7:15 PM CTD has not replied

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