Free will, or is it?

Hi lano, The garden was a big place, so why did he have to be standing by the woman's side?If he was by her side:Why did the man not correct the woman when she spoke to the serpent adding not to touch the fruit? The devil who was speaking through the serpent knew exactly what God had said, just as the man knew.Why did the man not mention the serpent when he was explaining to God how he had come to eat the fruit?But even if he was standing by her side he willfully chose to eat the fruit as he did not offer an excuse. He did not claim to have been tricked or deceived. He said the woman you gave to be with me gave to me and I ate.I did not choose to throw it on the ground and not eat therefore I chose to disobey you God.Slice it dice it stir it anyway you want the man in the garden willfully chose to eat of the fruit. Because of that choice he and all his descendants were kicked out of God's estate.God made a way man can get back in His grace and return and live in His estate. His Son died to pay the debt to purchase man back from the slavery the first man sold his descendants into.Because of that payment God was satisfied and so He offers a free full pardon to all those who will receive it.Man has been given the ability to choose without interference from God to accept or reject that offer. This ability is called free will.Now everyone on this site has the ability to choose to respond to this post. They also have the ability to choose not to respond to this post. Your choice.Everyone has the ability to choose to accept or reject God's offer of a free pardon. Your choice.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi nator, You phrase that question wrong.God can cause you to do anything. God can prevent you from doing anything. This is correct.Now since God has limited Himself to give you free will.God will not cause you to do anything. God will not prevent you from doing anything. This is correct.Just because God has limited Himself as to what He will do concerning your free will does not take away His ability to be able to control your actions if He wanted too.From Message 73God can do anything He chooses to do.From Message 74This is the devil's kingdom at present and has been from the beginning. Just as he could enter Judas he could enter the snake.
Unless you believe in talking snakes. If you want to believe that it's OK by me.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi CK, You keep equating God's foreknowledge with total control.You are also equating God with evolution. I do not hold that view.I believe God created the Universe and it was Perfect in Genesis 1:1.
I believe God created a perfect man whom He gave the ability to choose to know good and evil. He placed this man on a perfect earth in a perfect garden.Lucifer was put in charge of this part of the universe that included the earth, It was his kingdom and still is until he is defeated and cast into the lake of fire.Lucifer tried to exalt his angels above God's angel's that failed.
He then enlisted the woman God had gave man to get him to join forces with him. Man chose to be in charge of his own destiny so God kicked him out just like He had kicked Lucifer out.From that time until this there has been a war between Lucifer and God. All humans when they reach the point the man did when he ate the fruit of the tree in the garden become responsible for themselves, their actions and choices.Man has been given free will and the ability to choose without interference from God.Lucifer or the devil which ever you call him is under no restrictions. He is free to make any kind of deal with you he desires to offer. Where did designer come from? You don't hear me preaching ID.
So take it somewhere else. CK lets get a couple of things straight.I am not YEC, ID'ST or mainstream christian. I don't even claim to be a Christian. Christian to me means Christ Like and I am a long ways from being like Christ although I am trying very hard.Free will = the ability to choose for one's self."a) god sets the intital conditions but is unable to determine possible outcomes"God created everything perfect. He put Lucifer in charge. From that moment on God limited Himself as to what He would and would not do. He has that power."b) god is unable to control all of the conditiions and variables that determine the state of the universe."God is able to control everything BUT He has chosen to limit Himself as to what He will or will not do.He does not control what man does to himself or the earth.
We can destroy it if we so choose and I think we have decided to try.
He did choose to do certain things and they will come to pass.One of those is man's ability to use free will to choose to receive God or reject Him.God's ability to see the future in no way makes Him responsible for man's decisions.King Saul wanted to know the outcome of a battle before it took place so he went to the local fortune teller. She told him he was going to lose. He made the fortune teller go into battle with him which he lost.Was it the fortune tellers fault King Saul lost the battle because she knew the outcome before the battle started?That is exactly what you are accusing God of.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi bluegenes, Why would God giving man the ability to choose keep Him from being able to see in the future? If you work in a company the boss gives you the authority to do a specific task. You are allowed to do that task until the boss decides he will no longer allow you to do that task. So by him giving you the authority in the first place did he in any way give up any power to make the decisions?God will allow man to make the decisions for so long then one day He will say enough is enough at that time He will exercise His Power and His Judgments.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi nator, I agree with that. that is the reason you find just below my statement that God could cause you or anyone to do or not do anything you will find: If you were being honest and not trying to deceive others you would have addressed that point also. I do not believe in talking snakes.
So I gave you an example of the devil entering a man so why could he not enter a snake. I never said the snake or serpent was the devil only that he was speaking through him.And yes God did put a curse on the snake because the devil had used him.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hello iano, Let me see if I can express my understanding of free will concerning man's choice in the matter at hand.Assuming I know where you live and have a phone number for you.I call you and say iano there is a plane ticket at the airport in your name. If you want to come visit me in sunny Florida all you have to do come on down.There are some thing involved in you reaching Florida.First you would have to believe the offer was sincere.
Second you would have to believe I would do what I said I would do.
Third you would have to go to the airport claim the ticket get on the plane.
Skip any of those steps and you would not make it to Florida.At any point you could exercise your free will and change your mind until the plane backed away from the dock.God and free will concerning the free pardon.To obtain the free pardon offered by God.
The first thing a person would have to do is exercise their free will and choose to believe God exists.
The second thing a person would have to do is exercise their free will and believe God's offer was genuine and that He would honor His Word.
The final thing a person would have to do is exercise their free will and sit down in the seat of flight final (at this time the full pardon is in full effect) and depend on the pilot (Jesus) to get them to their final destination.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi nator, You are correct but he is mentioned. But what difference does it make you do not believe the Bible no matter what it says. If that old serpent deceived the whole world it had to include the first woman.But it does not make any difference who or what was talking to the first woman. She ate the fruit.The first man willfully chose to eat the fruit he could have chosen not to eat the fruit and he would still be in the garden by himself.
Instead he exercised his free will and ate the fruit. Nobody forced him, deceived him or tricked him into eating the fruit.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi iano, enslaved, yes but enslaved to what? Satan because your ancestor sold you into slavery. John 8:34-36dead, yes but how? Dead in trespasses and sins separated from God. Eph. 2:1blind, yes but blind to what? Blind to the truth. Matt. 23:24-26 I need a scripture for that.I know you can not obtain salvation by physical works. Eph. 2:8-10. Here we have asking God for that free pardon. Since this would probably be off topic why not e-mail me and tell me about this God of yours I would like to hear of Him/Her/It.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi iano, Did you exercise your free will and make a choice to be born again or did you get that some other way? I have been told several times that is my problem I think too much.Examine any scripture in context to get the meaning. Paul is writing about the children of Israel having exercised their free will and chosen to make their own rules instead of submitting to Gods rules.Paul is talking to lost people who know not God, not born again people.He then states several things a person does in exercising his free will.He mentions:
Confessing with the mouth.
Believing with your heart. (to the people of that day heart was the seat of affection)
Those who believe on him will not be ashamed.
He said there is no difference in peoples.
Then he said whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
He further states how can they call on him in whom they have not believed. That is impossible.
He then states how can they believe in Him of whom they have not heard. That is impossible.
Finally he says how shall they hear without a preacher.
That is what I do. I tell people about Jesus.iano I feel for people who have been raised without the knowledge of God imparted to them by their parents. There is nothing I can do about that I wish I could. I can only tell them what God says in His Word. If they choose to accept the Word fine. If they choose not to accept the Word I can do nothing about that. God will do nothing to make them believe.God gave man free will so man could choose to believe in Him, love Him, and serve Him just because He is God.He gave parents the responsibility of teaching their children.If the parents exercise their free will and do not choose God then the children are at a big disadvantage.If these children grow up and exercise their free will not to choose God what chance do their children have.That is the reason there are so many today who do not believe in God. They have seen no evidence for a God in the lives of their parents, grand parents and great grand parents.They all chose to exercise their free will and seek to find their own way.Sometimes I want to exercise my free will after 45 years of telling people about Jesus who will not listen and just go fishing.But there is one more person somewhere that will listen. So I exercise my free will and keep searching for that person.You see free will works in many ways.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Thanks CTD. CTD there was a time about 45 years ago that I would have agreed that the angels had free will.But this verse in Isaiah changed my mind.Isai 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Light was not created.
Darkness was created.
Peace was made.
Evil was created.The devil is evil, his followers are evil and will spend eternity with him in the lake of fire.So if I believe the Bible and this is God's Word in Isaiah I have to conclude the devil had no choice. I also have to conclude he is doing an execellent job, just like everything else God created except mankind.Nowhere do I find where God gave the devil a choice.I do find where man was given a choice. He was told he could eat of any tree except the tree of good and evil. Man had a choice. Do not eat and live. Eat and die.Man chose to eat the fruit after the woman had been deceived by the voice coming from the serpent.The man plunged all his descendents into separation from God. God kicked man out of His presence into the devils world whom he had chosen to obey.Man is a citizen of this world and will suffer the same fate as the devil because of the first man's choice to wilfully disobey God.Unless man is willing to exercise his free will and accept the free full pardon offered by GodGod Bless,Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi CTD, But you are talking about humans who are created in the image and likeness of God.Angels were not created in the image of God that I can find. God said I form the light. I John 1:5 says God is light.
He did not have to create light.Rev. 21:23 talking about the New Jerusalem says the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamb was the light thereof.Rev. 22:5 there will be no night there, no need for the light of the sun. God giveth them light.Whatever it took for God to create darkness I am sure He was able to do it.It said peace was made. I am not going to speculate on this.Isaiah 45:7 says I the Lord create evil.You quoted Jesus where He said in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,"When did Jesus say the devil started being evil? I would take that statement to mean when be began to exist. I think the angels are the same as everything in the universe except mankindI think mankind is the only creation of God that He created in His image and likeness.
God has free will therefore mankind would have free will.The devil had to have God's permission to try and make job curse God.Job 1:12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.So, no I don't believe the devil has ever had free will. I think the devil has done exactly what he was supposed to do within the limits set by God.Judging the angels I am not going to touch as I have never thought much about it, as it has nothing to do with here and now. That depends on what God's plan was in the beginning, doesn't it,Acts 17:26 (KJV) And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:If God's plan was to create mankind in His image giving him a freewill to choose God or reject Him, I think He succeeded.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."