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Author Topic:   We know there's a God because...
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 256 (458552)
02-29-2008 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Cold Foreign Object
02-29-2008 6:59 PM


That was already admitted, as was the fact that before, in Africa, having no exposure to religious texts or monotheism, they concluded reality looked like it was produced by a Creator.
Did they also conclude that the earth was flat, and that the stars, sun, and moon went around the earth?
Seems like most, even all, cultures concluded that the earth is flat, and that the sun, moon, and stars go around the earth without having any exposure to religious texts or monotheism.
It is entirely possible for cultures to reach the same conclusions without those conclusions being true.

If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-29-2008 6:59 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 256 (458654)
03-01-2008 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by lyx2no
03-01-2008 1:36 AM


There is a lovely little phrase in latin that I can’t remember but is abbreviated M.M., meaning “given the appropriate changes. (If anyone knows ” clue me.)
It's mutatis mutandis. I've never seen it abbreviated, though.
Edited by Chiroptera, : Bad tagging.

If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by lyx2no, posted 03-01-2008 1:36 AM lyx2no has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by lyx2no, posted 03-01-2008 1:37 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 256 (458727)
03-01-2008 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Cold Foreign Object
02-29-2008 8:45 PM


You are conveniently omitting or forgetting the already established fact that they arrived at the existence of a Creator through observing nature in Africa....
And they also established the facts that the earth is flat and that the stars, moon, and sun move around the earth.
I don't think the OP is really concerned about whether it is possible to come to incorrect conclusions about the world; I think Percy's main question really has to do with how we can infer God exists and have some confidence (beyond batshit insanity) that the conclusions are true.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-29-2008 8:45 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 159 of 256 (458817)
03-02-2008 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Granny Magda
03-01-2008 10:19 PM


Re: The Court of Reality
ano, please don't clutter up another thread with this "How do you know reality is really real?" nonsense.
iano can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that he is aiming for a version of TAG. I think his point is that an atheistic/materialistic outlook gives no basis for logic or knowledge, and that only through the Christian evangelical god can we acquire a proper basis upon which we can trust we have knowledge.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Granny Magda, posted 03-01-2008 10:19 PM Granny Magda has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 256 (458856)
03-02-2008 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by bluegenes
03-02-2008 1:49 PM


I bet you also argue against people who look at clouds and see bunny rabbits.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by bluegenes, posted 03-02-2008 1:49 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by bluegenes, posted 03-02-2008 1:53 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 256 (458859)
03-02-2008 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by bluegenes
03-02-2008 1:53 PM


Well, as Cold Foreign Object will remind you, if a given cloud looks like a bunny rabbit to every culture in Africa, then we must conclude that bunny rabbits live in the sky.
And you'd realize that if the Cosmic Bunny Rabbit wasn't punishing you for not believing in sky-dwelling bunny rabbits by removing your bunny rabbit sense.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by bluegenes, posted 03-02-2008 1:53 PM bluegenes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Rahvin, posted 03-02-2008 2:49 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 211 of 256 (459166)
03-04-2008 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Buzsaw
03-04-2008 12:45 PM


Re: All Cultures Religious]
The Industrial Revolution would have never come about due to the depravity of humankind.
Hmm. Actually, I've always felt that the Industrial Revolution was the result of the depravity of humankind.
Off-topic, I know; this is just a short note making explicit the problems of stating your idiosyncratic visions of history as if they were undisputed fact.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Buzsaw, posted 03-04-2008 12:45 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Buzsaw, posted 03-08-2008 4:43 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 256 (459586)
03-08-2008 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Percy
03-08-2008 5:11 PM


Re: All Cultures Religious]
Chiroptera is also right to note that this is off-topic....
Oops. I almost responded to that post.
Percy has interpreted my post correctly.
But I will also repeat my point: not only are Buz's comments in the original post to which I responded controversial, but they aren't even on topic.
To be on topic, it would be insufficient for Buz to explain the Industrial Revolution in terms of people's belief in God or Christianity; he would have to explain how the Industrial Revolution would not have occurred if there were no god.

...Onward to Victory is the last great illusion the Republican Party has left to sell in this country, even to its own followers. They can't sell fiscal responsibility, they can't sell "values," they can't sell competence, they can't sell small government, they can't even sell the economy. -- Matt Taibbi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Percy, posted 03-08-2008 5:11 PM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Buzsaw, posted 03-08-2008 11:10 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
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