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Author Topic:   Equating science with faith
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4138 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 225 of 326 (461931)
03-28-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Beretta
03-28-2008 9:34 AM


Re: Uniformitarianism
quote:
Helium in zircon crystals in granite does not allow granite to be more than thousands of years old or it would have disappeared from the granite.
Lies.
RATE's Ratty Results: Helium in Zircons
CD015: Helium diffusion from zircons
RATE's Ratty Results: Helium in Zircons
quote:
Apparently the journal "Nature" reported similar experiments to Berthault's a decade later.I think that "Expelled -No Intelligence Allowed" should help expose these peer review publishing issues that have been around too long.
Ah the whole conspiracy argument. There's not much can be said against a lunatic belief like that. But what's your take on the lack of any repeatable evidence and experiments by 'creation science.' Furthermore, why is there absolutely no commercial application of creationist geology? Magic anyone? Hocus Pocus? Open Sesame?
quote:
That's if you have faith in radiometric dating methods that for rock of known age are so often and incredibly wrong.There is no good reason to trust it unless you just have to have long ages and slow evolution just has to have happened.
France produces a huge amount of power from nuclear reactors. The fundamental basis for such power generation is uniformatarnism in radioactivity. Why would I reject such obvious truths? Have you seen the satellite images of France at night? Hint: it's bright due to nuclear power derived from the study of radioactivity which incorporates uniformatarnism. On top of that India (and the US to a lesser extent) is spending billions of currency units to commercialize and implement the thorium breeder reactor which is based on the assumption of constant rates of decay, one of the main principles of uniformatarnism. Why would we reject uniformatarnism when ENTIRE NATIONS have huge practical, tangible, energy producing programs that are fundamentally rested upon those assumptions?
Furthermore, your 'one' example of how dating is wrong is a massive lie. And why wouldn't we accept it? What evidence suggest that uniformatarnism is wrong? Do you have evidence of a previous set of physical laws?
quote:
Which doesn't necessarily imply that these bugs will be anything but bugs of the same recognizable kind as long as life continues on this planet.
Care to define 'allele' for me and repeat your claim with a straight face?
Edited by obvious Child, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Beretta, posted 03-28-2008 9:34 AM Beretta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Beretta, posted 03-29-2008 8:16 AM obvious Child has replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4138 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 226 of 326 (461932)
03-28-2008 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Beretta
03-28-2008 9:49 AM


Re: Uniformitarianism
quote:
Why is there residual C14 in all the sedimentary strata?
Here's a hint: look up the byproducts of natural decay of radioactive elements. Then learn where many of these radioactive elements are. Oh the joys of education!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Beretta, posted 03-28-2008 9:49 AM Beretta has not replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4138 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 228 of 326 (461985)
03-29-2008 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Beretta
03-29-2008 2:49 AM


Re: Uniformitarianism
Could you define 'Cogenetic" for me?
As for sunset crater...more lies.
Mt St Helens
CD013.1: K-Ar dating of Mt. St. Helens dacite
You're going to have to cite the Australia example.
quote:
Mt Ngauruhoe In New Zealand -five K-Ar datings of andesite lava flows. Dates ranged from 0.27-3,5 mill years but one occurred in 1949,three in 1954 and one in 1975
I'm going to try to explain to you something.
Let's say you've made five batches of spaghetti over the course of a month. You've saved some of each, even then month old sample. Now if you mix all five samples together and ask someone to figure out how old the 'sample' is by tasting and smelling it, do you think they could do so accurately?
This represents the giant fraud of creationists dating. They deliberately take non-cogenetic samples, test them knowing full well that they're going to get screwed up dates and call dating all wrong.
In my example, you'd call the person's taste buds and nose screwed up because they couldn't figure out that the sample wasn't a mix of various samples.
Edited by obvious Child, : link fixing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Beretta, posted 03-29-2008 2:49 AM Beretta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Beretta, posted 03-29-2008 7:13 AM obvious Child has replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4138 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 232 of 326 (462061)
03-29-2008 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Beretta
03-29-2008 7:13 AM


Re: Lies, fraud and screwed up dates!
Not a single factual reply to how your examples are wrong.
The sad thing is, the lies you peddled were already refuted years ago.
quote:
I trust my sources and they're all scientists as well.
Since when was getting a fake degree from a diploma mill make you a 'scientists?'
If I start my own fake college and start handing out BS in chemistry and biology to people on the street, does that make them scientists? Under your logic, yes.
quote:
We see dogs begetting dogs of all kinds and never anything but a dog and we interpret that to mean that these varieties have limits -assumption based on evidence.
Opposed to assumptions based on what a book said so, with absolutely no evidence to support its claims?
quote:
.There is no proof that matter organizes itself into intelligent information that can change into new and different intelligent information with time -which is why we don't believe it!
Organizes itself? What do you mean? Care to explain to me meiosis? It appears you are simply spewing stuff without actually understanding what you are saying in the hopes that something sticks. That's the glish glop.
quote:
So we all have faith.
Apparently you believe that nuclear energy is 'faith based.'
quote:
If you have 5 different samples all under 100 years old but you get a date excessively beyond any one of them then I don't think the mixing of samples has anything to do with the problem here.
Did you even understand my example?
Why is that you refuse to define 'co-genetic?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Beretta, posted 03-29-2008 7:13 AM Beretta has not replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4138 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 234 of 326 (462065)
03-30-2008 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Beretta
03-29-2008 8:16 AM


Take me to a magic show!
quote:
Origins science is not observable or repeatable -that works for us and for you.
Then explain to me why all of the oldest light comes from one spec. Not observable you say? Why is that we have created the building blocks for organic matter from non-life in the lab? Non-repeatable you say?
quote:
Creationist geology I presume refers to our interpretations of the evidence in attempting to explain what has happened in the past.
Every geologist, creationist or evolutionist, uses the laws of matter for technological advancement. The difference is only in our interpretation of what happened in the past.
Except that your interpretation rejects the long time line that is commonly accepted. It also argues that radioactive rates were different back then. While conventional geology and science has built numerous practical applications based on Old Earth beliefs. XOM, Chevron, Shell, Sinopec, etc all use old earth geology. Why is that no one uses any creation interpretations for commercial applications? The true test for an alleged breakthrough is whether or not it can be used. Why is that absolutely no creationists breakthroughs have been capitalized on? it is perhaps because those interpretations are completely wrong?
quote:
Just because it is quite feasible that there may have been a burst of more rapid radioactive decay in the past doesn't mean we are going to use those past possibilities in our now technology
Then why is there no evidence for this? Magic? Goddidit? Hocus Pocus? Modern radiology is based on uniformitarianism. Nowhere in the science does it suggest that radioactive rates will change or that any burst if speed will occur. The same principles are built into commercial reactors. Why would states risk massive disasters if your 'idea' was feasible? Changing rates could seriously disrupt the reaction. Just look at the backers of these plants. Usually not atheists.
quote:
You appear to be determined to misunderstand and not differentiate between experimental science and origins science.
Not at all. What experimental science has creationism done? (note you've still refused to define cogenetic.)
quote:
I would think that would be obvious and practical and have nothing to do with the real argument here.
Not at all. You don't want to deal with it because it blows an Arcturus sized hole in your belief.
quote:
Different elements currently decay at measurable rates -that is not an assumption, it is an experimentally verifiable fact. Uniformatarian assumptions about the past have nothing to do with this.
What? Uniformatarian assumptions have everything to do with that fact. They assume that these rates were the same in the past. Commercial application in finding some of these elements depends directly on finding elements that resulted from decay and visa versa. If these assumptions were false, why do mining companies use the assumed rates and go backwards? Clearly you are using a massively wrong belief on what Uniformatarism.
quote:
Everything I say is a massive lie in your book -you repeat yourself. Calm down.Hyperbole is unnecessary.
I refuted every example you gave except for the Australian one, which lacked sufficent information to find any data on. Your sources which I assume to be the foundation for your beliefs are lies. I'm not saying you are lying, but your sources and their authors are. Snelling for example is notorious for using non-cogenetic samples and declaring all dating wrong.
quote:
If I cooked something yesterday and it burned, it does not mean it is going to burn today.
Where are you going with this?
quote:
Different heat, different outcome. Perhaps something happened in the past to cause a rapid burst of decay.
Yet where is the evidence for this rapid burst? Where is the evidence for its cause? Magic? Goddidit? Hocus Pocus? All your rational is based on MAGIC.
quote:
How do you know what the graph looks like? You can't extrapolate into the past according to what you want to believe.
We can based on evidence. You are arguing that historical data graphed from current trends are wrong because something the past may have been different. That's okay. What we are attacking your arguments on and what you have been repeatively warned about by the mods is your lack of any evidence.
Where is the evidence to suggest different rates? Do you have any or is it all magic?
quote:
We don't know what happened in the past -we weren't there.
Therefore we cannot convict anyone of murder without witness. Oh wait. That example has been used time and time again to refute the nonsense you gave.
quote:
We interpret according to the evidence in the present and lots of assumptions are involved.
And when these assumptions are proved by commercial application, what do you have to say? Goddidit?
quote:
If you're so determined to believe that everything is exactly the same now as it ever was then why do you believe in macro-evolution?
Everything? No. I'm saying that the laws of physics haven't changed. That is very different from the things that the laws of physics act upon. Due to the massive lack of any evidence to suggest any differing rates, I reject your ideas. If you HAD evidence, you would have presented it.
quote:
We both know what an allele is so what's your point?
No, I don't think you do know what an allele is.
quote:
My face has remained straight throughout -it's only you that interprets everything I say as a lie or a deception based on an underlying desire to fool myself and anybody else I can in the process.
That's your response to my refutation of your sources?
Seriously.
quote:
How can you possibly interpret my intentions the way you do? Or is that just a characterization you apply uniformly to all non-evolutionists?
How about your refusal to answer basic questions? Or your running from your refuted posts? I'm very close to reporting you for using the glish glop.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Beretta, posted 03-29-2008 8:16 AM Beretta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Beretta, posted 03-30-2008 9:41 AM obvious Child has replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4138 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 249 of 326 (462225)
04-01-2008 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Beretta
03-30-2008 9:41 AM


Re: Take me to a magic show!
1) You have no evidence to back up any claims you have made
2) You have no answers to our examples of how science is not faith based
3) You ignore how your arguments are proven false
4) You keep stating that science is faith based DESPITE warnings by the admin to back your claims up.
5) You fail to argue how practical application is subsantially different from the actual science and thus how the basis for the application is faith based
If you have an evidence backed argument as to how science is faith based, make it.
We're getting sick and tired of your "it's faith based, but I have no evidence to back my claims up"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Beretta, posted 03-30-2008 9:41 AM Beretta has not replied

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