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Author Topic:   The Big Bang and Absolute Zero
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 31 of 56 (461295)
03-24-2008 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Lyston
03-23-2008 2:01 AM


Lyston writes:
My thinking is, if you were to go in some zippy little spaceship that could travel faster than the rate of 'expansion', you would never reach an end of space.
It wouldn't have to be much of a spaceship. The space about a mile away from you is retreating at the rate of only 0.1 nanometers/hour.
It is only space that is a great distance away that is retreating at significant rates.
--Percy

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 Message 22 by Lyston, posted 03-23-2008 2:01 AM Lyston has not replied

  
there is no evo proof
Member (Idle past 5817 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 04-21-2008


Message 32 of 56 (463854)
04-21-2008 1:33 PM


Big bang us scientifically imposiible
look big bang is simply dismissed from the beginning
and that is by where did matter come from? someone had to make it. now i know you will say oh it always existed. it cant because of the second law of thermodynamics everything tends toward a state of equilibrium in other words we still have hot and cold we should not if everything always existed forever.
also there is no proof of macro evolution. please try me with a single shred of proof there is none

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by teen4christ, posted 04-21-2008 1:47 PM there is no evo proof has not replied
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 04-21-2008 1:55 PM there is no evo proof has not replied
 Message 35 by Rahvin, posted 04-21-2008 2:08 PM there is no evo proof has not replied

  
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 5798 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 33 of 56 (463855)
04-21-2008 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 1:33 PM


Re: Big bang us scientifically imposiible
Word of advice from one believer to another on how people will react to your comment. Permit me to reitterate.
look god is simply dismissed from the beginning
and that is by where did god come from? someone had to make it. now i know you will say oh it always existed. it cant because of the second law of thermodynamics everything tends toward a state of equilibrium in other words we still have hot and cold we should not if everything always existed forever.
also there is no proof of angels and heaven. please try me with a single shred of proof there is none
Know what I mean?

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 34 of 56 (463856)
04-21-2008 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 1:33 PM


Re: Big bang us scientifically imposiible
Hi, 'No Evo Proof', welcome aboard!
there is no evo proof writes:
where did matter come from? someone had to make it. now i know you will say oh it always existed.
If by matter you mean the normal matter of everyday life that we're familiar with, Big Bang theory says that hydrogen, helium and a little lithium and perhaps tiny amounts of beryllium condensed from the plasma of quarks and other particles that existed shortly after T=0, but makes no claims about where the particles comprising that plasma came from. The other elements were cooked in the fusion furnaces of stars and in supernova explosions.
also there is no proof of macro evolution. please try me with a single shred of proof there is none
This would be off-topic in this thread. Why don't you check out some of the threads over at the [forum=-5] forum.
--Percy

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 35 of 56 (463860)
04-21-2008 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 1:33 PM


Re: Big bang us scientifically imposiible
look big bang is simply dismissed from the beginning
Perhaps you should try reading some of the other threads on Big Bang cosmology here.
Big bang cosmology is factual. As in, the expansion of the Universe is an observed fact. There are mountains of evidence supporting the expansion model, but when it comes down to it, you yourself could look through a telescope, measure the redshift of distant bodies relative to their distance from us, and conslusively show that the space between all objects is expanding.
and that is by where did matter come from? someone had to make it. now i know you will say oh it always existed. it cant because of the second law of thermodynamics everything tends toward a state of equilibrium in other words we still have hot and cold we should not if everything always existed forever.
The laws of thermodynamics also state that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed in a closed system, genius.
"Always existed" and "beginning" become very strange concepts indeed within cosmology. It is entirely accurate to say that all of the matter and energy in the Universe have "always existed," meaning they exist at every coordinate of time.
But the Big Bang has never been a model of cosmological origins - it's the model of Universal expansion. It models the observed expansion of the Universe and makes testable predictions based on those models. The Big Bang model has allowed us to work out what conditions the Unvierse would have existed in long ago, and we have been thus far able to very accurately model the Universe all the way back to a bare fraction of a second after T=0 itself (and the only reason we don't know much regarding T=0 is becasue our math stops making snese under the extreme conditions predicted).
And the Universe is increasing in entropy, all the time. Your premise assumes that enough time has passed since T=0 for the Universe to reach uniform temperature and the lowest possible energy state. That simply is not the case - it will take many billions more years for the Universe to reach "heat death."
also there is no proof of macro evolution. please try me with a single shred of proof there is none
There is quite a bit, actually, but that's not the topic of this thread. Feel free to start a new topic regarding evidence for "macro-evolution." We're limited to a certain number of posts per thread here, so off-topic tangents like evolution in a cosmology thread are counter-productive.

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there is no evo proof
Member (Idle past 5817 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 04-21-2008


Message 36 of 56 (463864)
04-21-2008 3:05 PM


well the point is there is a God were not in a closed system.
and i thought you guys were under the impression that the earth is billions of years old which it is not.
yes matter cant be created nor destroyed so who made all of this.
and honestly your gonna believe a huge plasma goo oven theory what is it with you guys and goo.

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 04-21-2008 3:24 PM there is no evo proof has replied
 Message 38 by Rahvin, posted 04-21-2008 3:51 PM there is no evo proof has replied
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-21-2008 4:13 PM there is no evo proof has replied
 Message 40 by Chiroptera, posted 04-21-2008 4:29 PM there is no evo proof has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 37 of 56 (463869)
04-21-2008 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 3:05 PM


Hi 'no evo proof',
There's a little reply button beneath each post. If you use that instead of the General Reply button, then people will be able to tell who you're replying to.
there is no evo proof writes:
well the point is there is a God were not in a closed system.
This is a science thread. If you'd like to discuss religion you should visit one of the religion threads.
and i thought you guys were under the impression that the earth is billions of years old which it is not.
If you'd like to discuss the age of the earth then you should seek out threads in the [forum=-7] and [forum=-3] forums.
yes matter cant be created nor destroyed so who made all of this.
Matter is converted to energy and vice versa all the time. I think what you're trying to say is that we don't know where the material comprising the Big Bang came from, which is true, we don't. But that's not the topic of this thread. If you'd like to discuss that topic then you should propose a new thread over at [forum=-25].
and honestly your gonna believe a huge plasma goo oven theory what is it with you guys and goo.
This is the fallacy of argument from personal incredulity, with a splash of irrelevant ridicule.
You should ponder a bit on what Teen4Christ said in Message 33. Besides being off-topic most of the time, you're not making arguments that make any sense.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 3:05 PM there is no evo proof has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 4:49 PM Percy has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 38 of 56 (463872)
04-21-2008 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 3:05 PM


well the point is there is a God were not in a closed system.
Prove it. Show objective, reproducible evidence that a deity actually exists.
Here's your problem:
IF
(the Universe as we observe it) = (Big Bang model) + (various other scientific models including evolution)
AND
(the universe as we observe it) = (Big Bang model) + (various other scientific models including evolution) + (God)
THEN
(God) is at best irrelevant, and at worst nonexistent.
You're actually doing something even worse than that, though. You're trying to replace all scientific models regarding the Universe with, literally, "goddidit."
You're saying "god" created everything to be the way we observe it, but you're not providing a mechanism by which your deity "creates." You've disengaged your brain, stopped all observation, rational deduction, modeling, useful prediction, and everything else associated with thinking, and waved everything away with "goddidit."
That doesn't explain anything. Not anything at all.
You're attributing the existence of the Universe to a deity you cannot objectively prove to even exist while unilaterally insisting that all of the scientific models regarding anything prior to (I'm assuming this part) 6000 years ago are incorrect, in direct contradiction of observed evidence.
and i thought you guys were under the impression that the earth is billions of years old which it is not.
Feel free to start a geology thread. The Earth is several billion years old. That has been known as a fact for a very long time. Even before Darwin and the Theory of Evolution, it was well known that the Earth was at least millions of years old - no honest estimate younger than that has seriously been entertained in centuries, for very good reasons.
yes matter cant be created nor destroyed so who made all of this.
That statement isn't even self-consistent. "Matter cannot be created, so who created matter?" You aren't making sense.
and honestly your gonna believe a huge plasma goo oven theory what is it with you guys and goo.
What is it with you and mocking things you don't even begin to comprehend?
Why don't we start this way: state, in your own words, a brief summary of the Big Bang model of cosmology. Tell us what you think the Big bang model is, and we'll see if you're anywhere close. After all, you can hardly criticize the Big Bang model if you don't even know what it is, can you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 3:05 PM there is no evo proof has replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 56 (463873)
04-21-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 3:05 PM


well the point is there is a God were not in a closed system.
If we're not in a closed system then the 2nd law of Thermo doesn't apply. You've just defeated your own argument....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 3:05 PM there is no evo proof has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-23-2008 2:04 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 56 (463874)
04-21-2008 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 3:05 PM


Off-topic, but necessary point.
well the point is there is a God were not in a closed system.
Oh. I see. You meant to type: Well, the point is there is a God; we're not in a closed system.
Without the apostrophe distinguishing we're from were and without the punctuation separating God, that sentence is unreadable. No shit, I truly could not figure out what that sentence meant when I first read it. I thought you were trying to say that God exists and that he wasn't a closed system.
Proper spelling and punctuation are not optional, folks. It serious impedes the legibility of your posts when you don't write correctly.
Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

This message is a reply to:
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there is no evo proof
Member (Idle past 5817 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 04-21-2008


Message 41 of 56 (463875)
04-21-2008 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Percy
04-21-2008 3:24 PM


im not talking about religion im stating that scientifically there has to be a God.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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there is no evo proof
Member (Idle past 5817 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 04-21-2008


Message 42 of 56 (463876)
04-21-2008 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Rahvin
04-21-2008 3:51 PM


well your equations are irrelevant because there is no macro evolution with a God. im not replacing science with God im saying science backs up Gods existence and him making the universe.
you need to understand that its not the creationists job to prove God but the atheists to prove otherwise. for instance if you find some tooth picks laid out on the ground that spell your name are you going to think automatically oh someone spelled this out or well wind and billions of years and theres my name. oh and there is no proof that the earth is billions of years old but the proof that its thousands for instance the grand canyon was carved out by a flood. and please carbon dating is a joke. just recently in the states there was a little flood that happened that carved out a mini canyon.
that was a lil joke about life coming from rocks that turned into primordial goo.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 43 of 56 (463877)
04-21-2008 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 4:56 PM


Just a friendly hint.
If you'd like to discuss a god, you might want to follow Percy's advice and post in the religious threads.
This is a science thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 4:56 PM there is no evo proof has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 5:06 PM molbiogirl has replied

  
there is no evo proof
Member (Idle past 5817 days)
Posts: 8
Joined: 04-21-2008


Message 44 of 56 (463879)
04-21-2008 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by molbiogirl
04-21-2008 5:03 PM


and im talking about the science of God not his nature. way to hide your head in the sand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by molbiogirl, posted 04-21-2008 5:03 PM molbiogirl has replied

Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 45 of 56 (463881)
04-21-2008 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by there is no evo proof
04-21-2008 5:06 PM


This is not the "science of a god" thread.
This is the "Big Bang and Absolute Zero" thread.
If you would like to propose a new topic, please feel free to follow the link Percy provided.

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 Message 44 by there is no evo proof, posted 04-21-2008 5:06 PM there is no evo proof has not replied

  
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