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Author Topic:   The Creationist Paradigm
platypus
Member (Idle past 5772 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 11-12-2006


Message 1 of 5 (463815)
04-20-2008 9:45 PM


I have been wondering about why it is so hard for scientists, and evolutionary biologists in particular, to communicate and convince Creationists of scientific ideas. I have also been reading a lot of Thomas Kuhn lately. I don't think you need to be familiar with Kuhn's entire philosophy to understand where this is going, but I'll give a brief summary.
Kuhn says that different scientific fields exist in different paradigms, which is the context in which scientists investigate their field of sceince. Researchers in different fields work under different paradigms, and so often have trouble interacting, since their methods and terminology are so different. E.g. Fluid mechanists recognize solids and fluid, whereas chemists recognize solids, liquids, and gases. Marine biologist wonder what happens to larvae that are released from a specific point, physical oceanographers model how the entire ocean moves. A molecular biologist thinks of a species as forming a phylogenetic clade, whereas an ecologist thinks of a species as a groups of animals with ecological similar roles, whereas an evolutionary biologist thinks of a species as a reproductively isolated group of individuals.
The point is, the communication problem results from the fact that different terminology is used, that we are interacting under different paradigms. Many creationists (and cdesign proponentsists) use scientific terminology in the wrong way, indicating that they are thinking in an alternate context, using alternate terminology like random mutation, natural selection, evolving into a new species, humans coming from apes, etc. They have been taught to put together phrases about evolution in a manner which differs from the biological manner, which indicates they they are thinking in a different Kuhnian paradigm.
I'd like this thread to focus on whether this paradigm division exists, and also on ways to bridge the division, if we agree upon its existance.

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 Message 2 by Admin, posted 04-20-2008 11:38 PM platypus has replied

Admin
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Message 2 of 5 (463822)
04-20-2008 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by platypus
04-20-2008 9:45 PM


I'm undecided about whether to promote this one, so let me ask a question. Would you say the reason scientists are unable to convince astrology, homeopathic and alien abduction advocates is because of valid paradigmatic differences in perspective?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by platypus, posted 04-20-2008 9:45 PM platypus has replied

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 Message 3 by platypus, posted 04-21-2008 8:30 PM Admin has replied

platypus
Member (Idle past 5772 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 11-12-2006


Message 3 of 5 (463901)
04-21-2008 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
04-20-2008 11:38 PM


Hmmm, well that's a good question. I don't think that I can make one answer for all of them.
For astrology, yes, a paradigm difference. They view the movement of planets as symbols of upcoming events, whereas scientists view the planets movements as the result of physical laws. So yes, defnintely a difference in paradigms.
For alien abduction, no. They simply believe some facts are true, when they are not true. They accept a falsehood, and deny true facts.
For homeopathy, well that's a tricky one. My parents raised me on homeopathic remedies, and for some of them, there is scientific evidence in support of them. For example, boosting certain amounts of vitamins and nutrients can help you fight off a disease, just as taking a flu shot or penicillin can. The method and approach of treating the disease, homeopathy being bottom up and flu shots being top down, is definitely different, so I would say in this sense they are different in paradigms. But this is much more of a grey area. For example, tumeric has always been though to be good for your general health, homeopathically. And then recently, a scientific article found that turmeric can reduce the risk of altzheimers.
Now, if you want to talk about holistic healers (essential oils, pills with natural extracts), then yes, a major paradigmatic difference from conventional medicine. The methods and techniques are different, yet even these two field are fusing. The same article listed above says that fish oils, a common holistic remedy, may have beneficial effects. Rather than scientists convincing holistic healers to see their side, scientists are actually beginning to see the other side through applying the scientific method to test these alternate cures. Though I should note that even if holistic remedies are found scientifically to work, the reason that holist healers think that their methods work (inner chi) is different from the reason scientist think that holistic methods work (testing on mice), so there is still an unbreachable paradigm difference.
To bring this back to the issue at hand, are creationists just plain wrong and misinformed, like the alien abductionists, or have they been taught to ask the wrong sorts of questions, like the holistic healers? I tend to believe the latter, especially concerning discussions about information theory. Creationist have asked scientists to show that information can be gained in order to prove Darwinism. The correct answer from the evolutionist perspective is that the idea of animals evolving more or less information is nonsensical- their evolution does not follow paths of information, it follows paths of greatest survival probablities. I think creationists have been told many falsehoods, but the reason our communication with them is so unsucessful is that they are taught to think about evolution in a different paradigm, which often involves asking questions and making statements that are not exactly wrong but better described as nonsensical statements about how scientific evolution really works.

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 Message 2 by Admin, posted 04-20-2008 11:38 PM Admin has replied

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 Message 4 by Admin, posted 04-21-2008 9:17 PM platypus has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
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Message 4 of 5 (463905)
04-21-2008 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by platypus
04-21-2008 8:30 PM


Okay, that clarifies quite a bit, thanks. I can see where you're going now. This seems fine.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by platypus, posted 04-21-2008 8:30 PM platypus has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 5 of 5 (463908)
04-21-2008 9:18 PM


Thread copied to the The Creationist Paradigm thread in the Is It Science? forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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