On the Threshold of Bigotry

Then we are in agreement, at least with this bit. But you are making up arbitrary rules as you go along. You may have very real reasons for why you feel you have the title rights to claim what is or isn't bigotry, but at the end of the day the dictionary is going to reign supreme. Many, many words have been hijacked over time, some intentionally, some unwittingly. Bigotry just may be one of those words where it started out being used correctly, and after a million one sound bytes, has been affixed with a specific ideology. First of all, I don't see why gay marriage is being specified when there are all kinds of forms of bigotry. Second of all, I have chosen to remain silent about homosexuals from here on out because I offended too many people. Unfortunately you are going to have to find another patsy. I made my position clear. Bigotry, in many ways, is just another name for bias. At least that's how it often inevitably works out in practical discourse. A bigot is a person who is utterly intolerant of ANY differing creed, belief, or opinion. If you hate all Muslims for the sake of their being Muslim, then you're a bigot. If you hate all Malaysian people because they're Malaysian, then you're a bigot. If you hate all homosexuals because they're homosexuals, then you're a bigot. If you hate all Christians because they're Christians, then you're a bigot.Seems pretty straightforward to me. But if someone simply questions a paradigm, they are quickly labeled a bigot falsely, as being a bigot is unyielding and uncompromising in any fashion. It's like the term "homophobe." Not only does the word make no sense in conjunction with the prefix and the suffix, but it is also slung around rather carelessly by those who would slander someone who seems even slightly in opposition to their view.Does this help clarify at all?In a quick summary I believe most people don't even understand what a bigot is. They understand it loosely, and use the word recklessly. And their use of the word often indicates their own bias, their own prejudices, and their own... bigotry. Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : No reason given.

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

I said that I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. If you are utterly intolerant of the people who are utterly intolerant of homosexuals, would you be proud or ashamed of it? Show me, somewhere other than your mind, where this qualifier can be found anywhere in the English language next to the word "bigot," and then maybe we can talk. What part of "due process" has anything to do with bigotry? Stop conflating things that have nothing to do with one another. A Klansman is a bigot. Do we agree on that? How is it then that even the Klansman is afforded due process, even though you might argue that he would restrict from someone else? You are using a legal term to try and define an opinion. Like it or not, bigotry is nothing more than an extreme aversion to someone else's beliefs or opinions.You're rrrrrrrrreaching..... Ssssssstrrrrrrretch. Write it down while you're at it.

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

And gosh darn it, where would we be without those barbs?! Well, hang on now... If the word intolerant was already specific to an irrational detesting, then to be utterly intolerant of something would be a tautology.

quote:

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1: unable or unwilling to endure
2 a: unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters
b: unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : bigoted

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We are not in disagreement that to deny people freedoms irrationally would certainly qualify as both intolerance, and utter intolerance, and therefore would summarily qualify as bigotry. Where we disagree is that the abrogation of freedoms is the sole qualifier, as Flies and Straggler are now suggesting.Perhaps a scenario will elucidate my point better.When someone comes up to you in the street and makes some nasty remarks about your sexual proclivities, would you not say they were a bigot? I think in all honesty you would. And you would be right to say as much, I should think.In fact, lets say that in lieu of said conversation, you two have a debate. He says to you that he doesn't want to stop something like gay marriage, but just thinks that homosexuality is a disgusting perversion of nature. You calmly explain your position, but he persists, saying that you will never change his mind and that you are going to hell for it. Now, he doesn't want to take away any of your rights. Does he now cease to be a bigot in light of that?Conversely, lets say there is someone riding the fence about homosexuality. And he says, "Gosh, you know, I'm just not 100% about this homosexuality stuff. I've been reading a lot about it and I haven't really come to a solid decision yet. But wouldn't it make more sense to have marriage for heterosexual couples and civil unions for homosexual couples? Wouldn't that be the most equitable to make all parties involved happy."Clearly the first man is hostile and won't even listen to anything to the contrary -- in essence, he is utterly intolerant. The other guy is just being honest, and is not trying to hurt anyone. He is just trying to be fair.Which of the two is a bigot? Because according to Flies, Straggler, and now you, the second man is a raving lunatic, while the first guy is just expressing his opinion. Rational people would clearly say the first is the bigot.Hope that clarifies my position. If not, we'll haggle some more. Why thank you! Yes, happy belated birthday to you as well. I turned 31 and nearly had a mid-life crisis. Eh... All in all it was a good day, though I had to work on my birthday. Kinda ruined plans with the family, and we had to come up with some impromptu plans instead. But all in all it worked out great. Thanks for asking.

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo

You know you don't believe that in your heart of hearts, Flies. Give me a break. You are only saying that to save face since you've backed yourself in to a corner through a series of ad hoc qualifiers. I don't believe it for a second. Did you see utter intolerance in the second man? Certainly not. He is just being honest. Riding the fence about a subject would not in any way insinuate utter intolerance. If anything, it is the exact opposite. It is evidence of an openness and a willingness to hear both arguments. He wants the truth about it, whatever it may be. He has no allegiances in either direction, so, no, he is most certainly would not be a bigot.And to add, it isn't my definition, it is the English language's definition. My personal beliefs on the word bear no reflection on that. Consequently for you, you made up your own definition. That's not how it works. No, Flies, for the simple fact that most people don't have an utter intolerance to things. Yes, we all have our beliefs. Of the firm ones, sure we all are biased towards them. That doesn't mean that every single one of our beliefs are staunch, nor does it mean that we are incapable of believing otherwise through sound argument. Therefore, no, we are not all bigoted in every respect.

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“I know where I am and who I am. I'm on the brink of disillusionment, on the eve of bitter sweet. I'm perpetually one step away from either collapse or rebirth. I am exactly where I need to be. Either way I go towards rebirth, for a total collapse often brings a rebirth." -Andrew Jaramillo