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Author Topic:   The Obama Nation
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3930 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 16 of 171 (477554)
08-04-2008 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-01-2008 10:24 PM


Why should we read a book from a confirmed liar?
Mark was interviewing Dr. Jerome Corsi, NY Times best seller author of the Swiftboat book.
The swiftboat vets have been publicly confirmed to be liars. Why would we consider their opinions?

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 17 of 171 (477555)
08-04-2008 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2008 11:02 PM


Re: McBama: Two sides of the same coin
Ah, lolbertarians: shirking their debt to society and saying "Fuck you, I've got mine!" since 1857!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-03-2008 11:02 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-04-2008 4:41 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 171 (477558)
08-04-2008 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Rahvin
08-04-2008 2:43 PM


Re: McBama: Two sides of the same coin
Ah, lolbertarians: shirking their debt to society and saying "Fuck you, I've got mine!" since 1857!
Uhhhhhhh.... What?

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 08-04-2008 2:43 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Rahvin, posted 08-04-2008 6:20 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 19 of 171 (477561)
08-04-2008 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
08-04-2008 4:41 PM


Re: McBama: Two sides of the same coin
Don't you know what libertarianism is, NJ?
From Wiki:
quote:
The first known use in a political sense of the term translated into English as libertarian was by the French anarcho-communist Joseph Déjacque[6] who in 1857 employed the coinage libertaire in a letter to Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.[7] The English term is thus derived from a word which in French is synonymous with anarchist.[8]
Proudhon himself outlined a libertarian social philosophy consisting of "an analysis of the power relations underlying existing forms of political authority" and, further, "a vision of an alternative libertarian society based on cooperation as opposed to competition and coercion, and functioning without the need for government authority."
Less (or no) taxes, minimal (or none!) government or public oversight, private services instead of public?
Extreme libertarians are anarchists. "Moderate" libertarians simply ignore the fact that, from the moment you're delivered in a hospital, you are being lifted up by the rest of society and owe society an unpayable debt. They want lower taxes and believe social services like welfare are unfairly taking their "hard-earned money," ignoring the fact that taking away these programs would condemn many people to homelessness and death. They think that private services like the private healthcare industry are "better" than government-run social services due to competition and that this is self-evident, yet ignore the example of history, where private fire departments would set fires to make profits, and the modern example of the healthcare industry where millions of Americans cannot even afford to visit the doctor, sometimes even when they have coverage.
All of us owe the rest of society a debt that can't be paid, becasue we're all constantly dinking at the public trough. Water, food, medicine, housing, electricity, police, fire, all are provided by society as a whole, and we all have the responsibility to contribute back to society in the form of taxes at the very least. I don't have a problem at all with higher taxes for additional welfare and unemployment funding, public healthcare, or other social services, becasue I owe society for the standard of living I have, and I don't believe people deserve to be homeless when some tax dollars from all of us can afford to give them housing and food.
I don't have a problem with social libertarianism - by all means, people should be allowed as much freedom to exercise their beliefs and lifestyles without government interference as possible. Religion, sexual orientation, art, and other things should all be far outside the purview of governemnt. I strongly agree with this side of libertarianism.
But economic libertarianism begins with the idea that you, and only you, have earned every penny that you are paid, ignoring all of the support from society that allows you to do so. If you're poor, well, we shouldn't be forced to help you raise your standard of living and become a productive menmber of society - those people don't deserve to receive any of your hard-earned cash, right? Obviously private charities can do the same job, can't they? Because everyone would obviously give to charities if given the choice so that we'd have enough to support the needy. (I find this particularly ridiculous - libertarians claim that we shouldn't be forced to support the poor with public funds, yet insist private charity can do the same job? The only motivation is that making public welfare no longer mandatory through taxes but instead optional through charity means that the libertarian can choose not to help support the needy - ie, fuck you, I've got mine!)
Libertarians worship the free market as if free market systems actually work when not constrained by the governemnt, or are even appropriate for all solutions. Fee market solutions are not working, for example, in the current American healthcare system, where healthcare costs are rising at an astronomical rate each year instead of lowering from "competition," and the incentives are currently organised so that care is determined not by the patient's best interest but by how much the provider will need to pay. In America, if you develop a serious illness that costs more than your coverage affords, you can be faced with the choice of death or being in debt for the rest of your life. Countries that already utilize public medicine, something libertarians scream and cry at, do not have such problems. Remember Enron? Deregulation worked wonders there, didn't it. Deregulation and cutting of government subsidies for infrastructure (supported of course by libertarians, since private industry and the free market should work to ensure everyone has power and the infrastructure is kept updated without "government interference" or taxpayer dollars) have ensured that our nation's infrastructure has fallen behind and often fallen into disrepair. And who cares about stringing power lines to people in rural areas where there's no profit potential for the power company? The free market system says we shouldn't do that; only government subsidies encourage such ventures.
Free market systems can and do work, but not the libertarian way where "oversight" is a bad word and the market is somehow a magically self-correcting entity that always works in everyone's best interest. Face it - the libertarian world increases the social ills of America rather than solving even a single one, all for the sake of "lower taxes."
Perhaps you don't ascribe to those parts of libertarianism, NJ, but the basic philosophy of "I shouldn't have to pay taxes that are then given to people who didn't earn the money themselves" irks me. Government oversight, where the incentive is to get elected and so to actually improve the standard of living for the citizenry rather than the profits of private corporations, is necessary to keep the good aspects of a free market system without letting the bad parts run out of control. It means that while I'll support the social implications of libertarianism, their economic policies tend to be even worse than the Neo-Cons. I want to move toward single-payer, universal healthcare, public assistance for housing and transportation, more public funding for education and infrastructure, and services for the disabled, not away from them.
Libertarians are dreaming of a free-market utopia of voluntary human cooperation that is every much the pipe dream communism is. The moment you add actual human beings to the equasion, libertarianism fails for ironically enough the exact same reasons its mirror opposite communism has failed: human greed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-04-2008 4:41 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-04-2008 6:53 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 171 (477562)
08-04-2008 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Rahvin
08-04-2008 6:20 PM


Re: McBama: Two sides of the same coin
Don't you know what libertarianism is, NJ?
Yes.
quote:
The first known use in a political sense of the term translated into English as libertarian was by the French anarcho-communist Joseph Déjacque who in 1857 employed the coinage libertaire in a letter to Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.[7] The English term is thus derived from a word which in French is synonymous with anarchist.
Rhavin, Dejacque was merely the first person to use the wording, "libertarian." There is no correlation today with modern, American libertarianism. And although libertarianism is very nuanced, so much so that two libertarians can have very different views, the basis for such beliefs come from straight from the Framers of the Constitution.
Furthermore, what you know today to be a "Democrat" is vastly different than what a Democrat was in the 17 and 1800. Modern-day Republicans were the Democrats in fact, until a shift began happening. And this really isn't so unbelievable. Many 60's conservatives have long said that todays Republican party hardly resembles a thing like what Barry Goldwater, a.k.a Mr. Conservative, once stood for. Hence the name neo-con, as in, "new conservative." The exact same thing can be said of French libertarianism versus the contemporary party.
quote:
Less (or no) taxes, minimal (or none!) government or public oversight, private services instead of public?
Well, yes, libertarians at heart want what modern-day Republicans want, lower taxes, and what former Republicans wanted, smaller government and less intrusion.
[quote]Extreme libertarians are anarchists. "Moderate" libertarians simply ignore the fact that, from the moment you're delivered in a hospital, you are being lifted up by the rest of society and owe society an unpayable debt. They want lower taxes and believe social services like welfare are unfairly taking their "hard-earned money," ignoring the fact that taking away these programs would condemn many people to homelessness and death. They think that private services like the private healthcare industry are "better" than government-run social services due to competition and that this is self-evident, yet ignore the example of history[/qs]
Yes, they believe private is generally better, as did the Framers of the Constitution. If you believe the government is supposed to wipe your ass from cradle to grave then don't be a Libertarian. If you think living in a welfare state is better, let alone feasible, then by all means be a socialist. Private medicine with government restrictions is the safest route for all involved.
Water, food, medicine, housing, electricity, police, fire, all are provided by society as a whole, and we all have the responsibility to contribute back to society in the form of taxes at the very least.
Well, for starters, yes, of course we should pay taxes. But we need to pay taxes on what the government established that we pay them for -- things like defense, postal services, and not a whole lot else. I should add that food is not bought by taxes, nor is housing, unless you live in Section 8 housing or a derivative thereof. Neither is electricity or water. You pay a bill for both of those on top of being taxed for other things. Police and fire are the only things up on your list paid for by taxes, and I am perfectly happy to pay them for such things.
I don't have a problem at all with higher taxes for additional welfare and unemployment funding, public healthcare, or other social services, becasue I owe society for the standard of living I have, and I don't believe people deserve to be homeless when some tax dollars from all of us can afford to give them housing and food.
Sounds like maybe we should all be homeless then. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
Anyhow, I can't tackle the rest right now, I've gotta get going. But feel free to respond to my points and perhaps we can pick it back up later.

“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 171 (477588)
08-05-2008 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Hyroglyphx
08-03-2008 10:53 PM


Re: Jerome Corsi
NJ writes:
Well, I just read a small biography of the man and can only conclude something similar. Although I am certain that much of what the book entails is true, perhaps some embarrassing idiosyncrasies, an extreme bias is also not something I am interested in.
Would you mind posting the biography source? How objective was it?
From Mark Levin's extensive interview with Corsi and last night's brief interview of him with Glen Beck, I don't see him as a viper hatchet man at all. The man's book has no less than 700 footnotes to back up his claims.
From my own research the following statement from my OP of this thread is right on:
Obama's extensive connections with Islam and radical politics, from his father's and stepfather's Islamic backgrounds, to his Communist and socialist mentors in Hawaii and Chicago, to his long-term and close associations with former Weather Underground heroes William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn”associations much closer than heretofore revealed by the press Barack and wife Michelle's twenty-year-long religious affiliation with the black-liberation theology of former Trinity United Church of Christ Reverend Jeremiah Wright, whose sermons have always been steeped in a rage first expressed by Frantz Fanon, Stokely Carmichael, and Malcolm X, a rage that Corsi shows has deep meaning for Obama
Perhaps in this thread members who take issue with the above may work to refute one or more of the connections listed here. So far all we see is substanceless yada from Corsi critiques.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 171 (477589)
08-05-2008 6:40 AM


On Friday a lightning bolt knocked out a transformer and my phone/computer line and I just got back on line yesterday PM. My apologies for the delay in responding.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 23 of 171 (477606)
08-05-2008 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
08-05-2008 6:37 AM


Footnotes
From Mark Levin's extensive interview with Corsi and last night's brief interview of him with Glen Beck, I don't see him as a viper hatchet man at all. The man's book has no less than 700 footnotes to back up his claims.
Wherever this book is discussed in a positive way, the boast that it contains 700 footnotes is not far away. Footnote number is fairly irrelevant, how many are just explanations vs how many are citations? Are the citations relevant and accurate? Citation spamming (high density cites) are often the hallmark of the hatchet man and pseudo-scientist. What better way to give the appearance of authority than to provide lots of cites - that's what proper academics do right?
The footnotes boast seems to me to be a pre-emptive defence from democrats/liberals. I suspect, however, that if those footnotes where shown to not back-up what Corsi claims they do - those that wish to smear Obama will simply ignore it anyway since I don't think they themselves (in general) care about how well researched something actually is.
For reference: The Structure of Evolutionary Theory by SJ Gould has about 1,000 citations in it. Would you accept this argument in defence of evolution?
from his father's and stepfather's Islamic backgrounds
Since when was a father's or stepfather's religion important with regards to a person's suitability for office? Not only are you betraying the spirit of the constitution with a religious test for the man but you are shitting on said spirit in you endorse being concerned with a man's stepfather's religion.
Did you know that Richard Dawkins has a Christian background? Obviously he is a closet Christian who will expose the hypocrisy of atheism once and for all.
to his Communist and socialist mentors in Hawaii and Chicago
I assume you mean Frank Marshall Davis? Despite the fact that the connection as far as I can tell is pure speculation. The source is meant to be Obama's book, Dreams from My Father. However, Frank Marshall Davis is not named only one person named 'Frank' that some have decided must be Frank Marshall Davis. I haven't seen anything from that book that speaks of "Frank" as being anything constituting a mentor. He was described as an old man stuck in the sixties with some hard-won words of experience. Did I miss something?
a rage that Corsi shows has deep meaning for Obama
I'm sure he doesn't, since that would be nearly impossible unless Obama was a fictional character in the book. No, in actual fact Corsi paints a picture, speculates on what is happening in the mind of a stranger, and tries to pass it off as demonstrating something.
What I want to know is why do the Obama-smearers insist he is a communist and a closet-Islamicist? Are we expected to believe that the tenets of communism and the tenets of a fanatical politico-religion are actually compatible? Is China a Muslim country?
And wait, didn't McCain become a POW at the hands of Communists? How can we be sure that in those 5 years he wasn't brainwashed into being a muslim? After all, remember what McCain wrote?
quote:
I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate.
You decide.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2008 6:37 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2008 10:44 PM Modulous has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 171 (477660)
08-05-2008 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Modulous
08-05-2008 9:52 AM


Re: Footnotes
Hi Modulous. It's good to see some input from you. I haven't checked your profile but haven't seen anything from you for a spell.
1. A lot of what Corsi states in the book is taken directly from Obama's books and what Obama says etc. From the Levin interview it's quite obvious that he's done his homework extensively before making statements. There's no doubt whatsoever that the Frank in the book is Frank Marshall Davis. That's a well established fact.
2. Since this is a critique of a person, Corsi says he has footnoted so as to avoid lawsuits. On the Levine show he said the book was extensively lawyered so as also to avoid lawsuits and to make sure what he said was reliable.
3. Your analogy of a book on evolution which has a thousand footnotes is a poor analogy since most of the footnotes would be data on science and not a controversial topic.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Modulous, posted 08-05-2008 9:52 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Modulous, posted 08-06-2008 8:26 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 25 of 171 (477672)
08-06-2008 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
08-05-2008 10:44 PM


Re: Footnotes
Hi Modulous. It's good to see some input from you. I haven't checked your profile but haven't seen anything from you for a spell.
Yeah, been taking a rest. Easing my way back at the moment.
1. A lot of what Corsi states in the book is taken directly from Obama's books and what Obama says etc. From the Levin interview it's quite obvious that he's done his homework extensively before making statements. There's no doubt whatsoever that the Frank in the book is Frank Marshall Davis. That's a well established fact.
As I said, the sources are meant to be the books (and the speculations of others based on the books), but I have seen nothing from said books that supports anything said. I appreciate that you don't doubt that Frank is Mr Davis, but 'well established fact'? Can you care to go beyond simply saying as much and establish it for me? If the establishment is so well, it should be trivial, yes?
Further, this ignores the rather important point that the relationship with "Frank" as described in Obama's book does not seem to be the kind of relationship (eg., mentor, father figure etc) peddled by Corsi et al.
2. Since this is a critique of a person, Corsi says he has footnoted so as to avoid lawsuits. On the Levine show he said the book was extensively lawyered so as also to avoid lawsuits and to make sure what he said was reliable.
Yes, he says that. However, winning a libel suit in the US is very very hard. Corsi does not (like in Britain), need to demonstrate that his claims are true, but instead Obama has to prove that Corsi had knowledge that the information was false!
Besides, this is irrelevant to the boasts. The boasts are clearly not to defend against lawsuits - they are there to lend the air of authority.
3. Your analogy of a book on evolution which has a thousand footnotes is a poor analogy since most of the footnotes would be data on science and not a controversial topic.
Good point, there is no controversy with evolution. This forum doesn't exist. There are no court cases surrounding the teaching of evolution. The fact that Gould can cite about 1,000 scientific papers each of which probably cite half a dozen of their own is one of the reasons you completely accept evolution and all its implications.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2008 10:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 08-08-2008 12:04 AM Modulous has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 171 (477808)
08-08-2008 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Modulous
08-06-2008 8:26 AM


Re: Footnotes
Modulous writes:
I appreciate that you don't doubt that Frank is Mr Davis, but 'well established fact'? Can you care to go beyond simply saying as much and establish it for me? If the establishment is so well, it should be trivial, yes?
Further, this ignores the rather important point that the relationship with "Frank" as described in Obama's book does not seem to be the kind of relationship (eg., mentor, father figure etc) peddled by Corsi et al.
This association is just one of a number of corroborated associations of Obama which implicate him as a hard core socialist and as a borderline Marxist who's agenda includes the redistribution of wealth to the extent that socialist regimes have gone in the past, a policy which reduced the nations to what we have witnessed in the days of the USSR.
This policy empowers heads of state and reduces the power of the people eventually to what the continent of Europe endured during the last century with the impoverishment of the citizenry, the murder of over a hundred million citizens by their own tyrannical socialist governments and the bankruptcy of the nations.
The AP identifies Frank Marshal Davis. It's all over the net and an established fact.
Although Davis does not appear to have been a constant figure in his early life, Obama in his 1995 memoir, "Dreams from My Father," presents Davis ” referred to in the book only as Frank ” as an important influence who gave him advice about race and college.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Modulous, posted 08-06-2008 8:26 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by GDR, posted 08-08-2008 2:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 28 by kongstad, posted 08-08-2008 7:18 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 30 by Modulous, posted 08-08-2008 8:26 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 33 by Jaderis, posted 08-10-2008 2:24 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 27 of 171 (477813)
08-08-2008 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 12:04 AM


Re: Footnotes
I think we would agree that character is very important when it comes to electing any political leader.
In the one case we have a man who after several years of marriage, has a number of extramarital affairs and eventually meets a multi-millionaire heiress, 18 years younger and leaves his wife to marry her.
In the other case we have a man who has married and to the best of our knowledge has remained faithful to his wife, and seems to be a very good dad to their two daughters.
Matthew 7
15Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Hmmm.....
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 08-08-2008 12:04 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
kongstad
Member (Idle past 2889 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 28 of 171 (477830)
08-08-2008 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 12:04 AM


Re: Footnotes
This association is just one of a number of corroborated associations of Obama which implicate him as a hard core socialist and as a borderline Marxist who's agenda includes the redistribution of wealth to the extent that socialist regimes have gone in the past, a policy which reduced the nations to what we have witnessed in the days of the USSR.
So the argument is that since Obama has been associated with socialists, then Obama himself must be one?
What a strange conclusion to make!
Socialism is not a disease (and neither is marxism).
If you want to accuse Obama of being bordeline marxist, and of a desire to redistribute wealth more aggressively, then pointing to his aquintences is not enough. Please specify where, when and how Obama himself has acted in a way wich indicates such wishes. Quilt by association is just a silly game.
Finally, what is it with the US and the blind fear of anything from the left spectrum of the political divide? My guess is that if you go through Obamas background you'll find more democrats and republicans amongst his associations, but somehow conservatism is not a communicable disease but socialism is!
You have yet to come up with a single argument as to why this book is not just as much of a hack job as the earlier book the author was ossociated with (the swift boat debacle)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 08-08-2008 12:04 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 08-08-2008 7:56 AM kongstad has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 171 (477832)
08-08-2008 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by kongstad
08-08-2008 7:18 AM


Re: Footnotes
Kongstad writes:
You have yet to come up with a single argument as to why this book is not just as much of a hack job as the earlier book the author was ossociated with (the swift boat debacle)
Perhaps you or someone else could refute with your own documentation a specific statement or statements in the book.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by kongstad, posted 08-08-2008 7:18 AM kongstad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by kongstad, posted 08-08-2008 8:38 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 30 of 171 (477836)
08-08-2008 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 12:04 AM


Re: Footnotes
This association is just one of a number of corroborated associations of Obama which implicate him as a hard core socialist and as a borderline Marxist who's agenda includes the redistribution of wealth to the extent that socialist regimes have gone in the past, a policy which reduced the nations to what we have witnessed in the days of the USSR.
I wasn't talking about any of the other alleged associations. Just one specific one.
The AP identifies Frank Marshal Davis. It's all over the net and an established fact.
Dude, your thinking is surely twisted? You believe everything that is 'all over the net' is an established fact? Do you fall for every rumour, urban legend and viral advertising campaign?
An AP article does not establish anything as fact. The fact that lots of people are gossiping about it does not make it established fact. All that has to be done, is for enough people to talk about it as if it actually happened and people will presume it did, including sloppy reporters (like at the AP).
So. You claim it was a well established fact. You have been unable to establish it in a manner that was well. At best you have established it is a well established urban legend.
Let me clue you in. A well established fact is a fact that has been strongly demonstrated as being true, not a fact that is commonly believed.
Other than mere assertions made by people, what evidence connects the character "Frank" to "Frank Marshal Davis"? Establish the connection for me. We can move on once this trivial bit of fact finding has been done. Otherwise I'll just have to consider Corsi's book to be repeating hearsay and speculation and then using said speculation as source material in attempt to look legitimate.
So...what is the ultimate source for this bit of information? How was it rooted out? How am I supposed to tell it isn't just smear/gossip/urban legend if you won't show the working?
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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