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Author Topic:   The Obama Nation
kongstad
Member (Idle past 2870 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 31 of 171 (477837)
08-08-2008 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 7:56 AM


Re: Footnotes
I haven't read the book. But I believe I refuted your argument that if Obame had a socialist as a mentor, then Obama must have marxist leanings.
So we can agree that whether Frank was a socialist or not, this has no bearing on whether Obama harbours marxist leanings, yes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 08-08-2008 7:56 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 171 (477897)
08-08-2008 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by kongstad
08-08-2008 8:38 AM


Re: Footnotes
kongstad writes:
I haven't read the book. But I believe I refuted your argument that if Obame had a socialist as a mentor, then Obama must have marxist leanings.
So we can agree that whether Frank was a socialist or not, this has no bearing on whether Obama harbours marxist leanings, yes?
1. Obama's stated ambitions for government and his past record is and has been socialistic for the most part.
2. When he did't vote the leftist POV he simply refused to vote whenever a leftist vote would be unpopular for his political ambitions.
3. His socialist/Marxist mentor, Frank, would be proud of his record and the slick way he skirts around the specifics of issues in statements he makes while campaigning. He has mastered the ability to be all things to all men that he might win the maximum. A good example of this is his statement on the 2nd Amendment which is the right to bear arms.
His statement was that he knew what he believed about the 2nd Amendment and that he knew it guaranteed the right to bear arms. What he didn't tell America is what he thought about the 2nd Amendment or whether he agreed to it. Nor did he say whether he would honor it as stated or interpret it as gun owners interpret it.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by kongstad, posted 08-08-2008 8:38 AM kongstad has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3426 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 33 of 171 (477953)
08-10-2008 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 12:04 AM


Re: Footnotes
This association is just one of a number of corroborated associations of Obama which implicate him as a hard core socialist and as a borderline Marxist who's agenda includes the redistribution of wealth to the extent that socialist regimes have gone in the past, a policy which reduced the nations to what we have witnessed in the days of the USSR.
Hard-core socialist? Really, Buz?
What exactly are the Obama policies which include a "redistribution of wealth to the extent that socialist regimes have gone in the past" especially one equivalent to what we "witnessed in the days of the USSR?"
Just one example will do (and, of course, the explanation as to why it is even remotely comparable to former Soviet policies or even to other far left policies of current countries).
I would love to see such an example because then I might be able to use it to convince some of the more "hard-core socialists" I count amongst my friends to vote for him. They are currently wavering because he is not progressive enough (!) and these people don't even have Ché T-shirts!
The cries of socialism from the conservatives are really rather amusing because Obama and pretty much every other Democrat in any office in America are so far to the right that they would be called conservatives in most other Western countries (and some non-Western ones too!).
One more thing...how does one become a extreme liberal socialist AND a secret Islamo-fascist? Seems to me like the anti-Obama crowd are just desperately throwing out bogeyman words and seeing which ones will stick.

"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London
"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 34 of 171 (477996)
08-10-2008 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jaderis
08-10-2008 2:24 AM


Everyone Who Disagrees is a Socialist
Jaderis writes:
The cries of socialism from the conservatives are really rather amusing because Obama and pretty much every other Democrat in any office in America are so far to the right that they would be called conservatives in most other Western countries (and some non-Western ones too!).
It is obvious to any student of history and politics in the US that those without ideas other than hate and fear must resort to simplistic labels in order to stamp out intelligent debate.
In the early 20s the magic word was anarchist and/or communist.
In the late 40s and early 50s, the magic word was communist. Richard Nixon and Joseph McCarthy used this magic word to great effect.
In the late 70s until even today the magic word is liberal. Ronald Reagan and George Bush used this magic word to great effect.
Now the new magic word is socialist. Those who manipulate their willing audience into a frenzy of hate have evidently felt that the term liberal has been overused and now seek a new magic word to vilify any and all who question their supposed perfection.
Is it really any great surprise? Isn't there a new magic word, atheist, to describe anyone who does not toe the line when it comes to a given cult interpretation of theology? (ABE - upon reflection the older term heretic has been around since there was any religion)
It would be interesting to examine how the magic label word has been used to describe others that Right Wing Authoritarians seek to demonize:
Jew
Commie
Fag
Nigger (and all other racial epithets)
Pinko
Hippie
Intellectual
Elitist
Papist
Humanist
Pacifist
Evolutionist
and so on.
It's all done in the name of hate and fear. The two horns of their false authoritarian god.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.
Edited by anglagard, : link to RWA, go ahead take the test if you have the guts

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by Fosdick, posted 08-10-2008 8:20 PM anglagard has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 35 of 171 (478003)
08-10-2008 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by anglagard
08-10-2008 5:32 PM


Re: Everyone Who Disagrees is a Socialist
Note how "ZOMG SOCIALIST!" is thrown around as some sort of dire warning...
but no actual rebuttalis given. Nobody ever says why a given policy is "bad" beyond decrying it as socialist.
That's a pretty big clue that conservitards have no actual argument beyond their childish namecalling.

This message is a reply to:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5500 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 36 of 171 (478008)
08-10-2008 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by anglagard
08-10-2008 5:32 PM


Re: Everyone Who Disagrees is a Socialist
anglagard writes:
It would be interesting to examine how the magic label word has been used to describe others that Right Wing Authoritarians seek to demonize:
Jew
Commie
Fag
Nigger (and all other racial epithets)
Pinko
Hippie
Intellectual
Elitist
Papist
Humanist
Pacifist
Evolutionist
I think it was James McMurtry who explained that the term "cowboy" was initially intended as a slur on those men who herded cattle on horseback. "Cattlemen" would have been more respectful, but that term was already in use; it applied to the men who owned the cows. (McMurtry never speculated on what would happen if a cowboy ever became POTUS. Wish he had.)
”HM

This message is a reply to:
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kongstad
Member (Idle past 2870 days)
Posts: 175
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined: 02-24-2004


Message 37 of 171 (478043)
08-11-2008 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 8:44 PM


Re: Footnotes
Buzsaw writes:
kongstad writes:
So we can agree that whether Frank was a socialist or not, this has no bearing on whether Obama harbours marxist leanings, yes?
His socialist/Marxist mentor, Frank, would be proud of his record and the slick way he skirts around the specifics of issues in statements he makes while campaigning.
I take this to be an affirmative. Nice to see that we agree that this "Franks" political leanings have no bearing on whether Obama have marxist leanings.
Can we then agree that suggesting they have bearing is just a misguided attempt at slander?

This message is a reply to:
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Shield
Member (Idle past 2863 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


(1)
Message 38 of 171 (478054)
08-11-2008 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 8:44 PM


Let's find out, Buz
1. Obama's stated ambitions for government and his past record is and has been socialistic for the most part.
Either you have no idea what socialism is, or you have no idea what Obama's past is.
If you would be so kind, i would love to see Obama's socialistic deeds. As a socialist, i would be pleased.
You can find it all here: http://www.thomas.loc.gov and then Browse by Representitive and Choose Obama. That'll give you a complete list of what he's done in the senate. Show me what he has done that's 'Socialistic'
Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 39 of 171 (478081)
08-11-2008 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
08-08-2008 8:44 PM


1. Obama's stated ambitions for government and his past record is and has been socialistic for the most part.
Wrong. This is why you can supply no supporting evidence for these claims.
2. When he did't vote the leftist POV he simply refused to vote whenever a leftist vote would be unpopular for his political ambitions.
I presume that you have no evidence for this daydream.
You could have this fantasy about anyone. The Pope isn't really a Catholic, he just pretends to be to further his ecclesiastical ambitions. McCain is secretly a die-hard Communist, but he wants to be president. The folks at the Discovery Institute are really evolutionists, but they've found they make more money as creationists.
It's a very mean-spirited way of avoiding reality, don't you think?
3. His socialist/Marxist mentor, Frank, would be proud of his record and the slick way he skirts around the specifics of issues in statements he makes while campaigning. He has mastered the ability to be all things to all men that he might win the maximum. A good example of this is his statement on the 2nd Amendment which is the right to bear arms.
His statement was that he knew what he believed about the 2nd Amendment and that he knew it guaranteed the right to bear arms. What he didn't tell America is what he thought about the 2nd Amendment or whether he agreed to it.
Oh for Pete's sake.
If he knows that it guarantees the right to bear arms, he also thinks that it guarantees the right to bear arms.
However, if you are going to insist on what he thinks rather than what he knows, here you go:
There's been a long standing argument among constitutional scholars about whether the 2nd Amendment referred simply to militias or whether it spoke to an individual right to possess arms. I think the latter is the better argument. There is an individual right to bear arms.
Nor did he say whether he would honor it as stated or interpret it as gun owners interpret it.
See above. He thinks it's an individual right, rather than reserved to the "militia", whatever that is.
Of course, whatever he says, you will still fantasise about how he doesn't mean it, so that you can hate him for being against the Second Amendment and for lying about it.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 40 of 171 (478083)
08-11-2008 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Buzsaw
08-05-2008 6:40 AM


On Friday a lightning bolt knocked out a transformer and my phone/computer line and I just got back on line yesterday PM. My apologies for the delay in responding.
Clearly your posts have incurred the wrath of God. Or at least his severe embarrasment.

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 41 of 171 (478336)
08-14-2008 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-01-2008 10:24 PM


Not only is Corsi a proven lair, he is a racist and conspiracy theorist too!
Wild theories of 'Obama Nation' author - POLITICO
On the blog FreeRepublic.com, Corsi wrote that pedophilia "is OK with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press," that "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters" and that Kerry is "Anti-Christian, Anti-American." Last year, Corsi released a book charging President Bush was secretly plotting to create a North American Union by merging the U.S. with Canada and Mexico.
Apparrently nothing is beyond this guy and his ability to spew forth intelectual feces.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2514 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 42 of 171 (478471)
08-15-2008 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
08-05-2008 6:37 AM


Re: Jerome Corsi
It's not the number of sources, but the quality of the source that counts. I can source wikipedia three hundred times writing a history paper about how the cotton gin enabled the economic survival of slavery in the American South. Or, I could actually source first hand documents and secondary documents (written by experts on the subject matter).
And now you're changing the number of sources in the Obama Nation book. First 600, now 700? Which is it?
Perhaps in this thread members who take issue with the above may work to refute one or more of the connections listed here. So far all we see is substanceless yada from Corsi critiques
We are. See, in order to take Corsi's stances seriously, he has to be taken seriously. But if he's a crackpot, everything he states is highly suspect.

This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 43 of 171 (478474)
08-15-2008 8:01 PM


Obama campaign's anti smear website
WordPress.com
This seems to be carefully dissecting the stupid bloody Corsi book.
Edited by NosyNed, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 171 (478477)
08-15-2008 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by NosyNed
08-15-2008 8:01 PM


Re: Obama campaign's anti smear website
The mainstream media which is heavily pro-Obama has released a 40 page smear of Corsi which has been higly publicized. I listened to the Mark Levine show this eve and Mark has shown on his show that a significant number of documentation sources of the criticisms of the book are questionable and being in small print are not aired. He cited some specifics which were outright lies. The Corsi smear is heavy on criticism and light on substance.
The bottom line is what in Corsi's book, THE OBAMA NATION has been heavily lawyered from liabel. It is accurate.
This thread is about the book perse. What in this book can you falsify?
I might add that Floyd Brown, political activist who has circulated adds revealing the fact that Obama was a Muslim through age 7 etc. He is also under attack for these adds, which, btw, are also accurate.
In the eyes of the Muslim world, Obama is a Muslim. That's how Islam works. Once a Muslim = a Muslim to death as per Haddiths, Sunnas and the Koran. Thus the endorsement by Jehadist Hammas and most of the Muslim world for Obama as the US and for that matter the planet top man in authority.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by NosyNed, posted 08-15-2008 8:01 PM NosyNed has replied

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 45 of 171 (478491)
08-16-2008 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
08-15-2008 9:48 PM


The very best support for Obama
You know, Buz, you have gotten everything I know something about wrong. The fact that you support this book is, almost by itself, a reasonable guarantee that the book is as much junk as all the other nonsense you post here.
Thanks for that.

This message is a reply to:
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