Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 122 (8763 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-25-2017 11:39 AM
406 online now:
Coyote, Diomedes, DrJones*, edge, PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat) (6 members, 400 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: aristotle
Post Volume:
Total: 812,074 Year: 16,680/21,208 Month: 2,569/3,593 Week: 36/646 Day: 36/78 Hour: 0/3

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
45678
9
Author Topic:   NEPHILIM mYsteries
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2525 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 121 of 134 (323534)
06-19-2006 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by John Williams
05-31-2006 3:23 AM


Goliath cubit
John Williams writes:

Since Goliath was two meters tall, or about 6 feet 7 (according to DDS)

That depends on what cubit was being used.

common cubit: 18 inch
"New Testment cubit" (poss. Greco-Roman cubit): 21.6 inch
Royal cubit: 20 inch or so.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by John Williams, posted 05-31-2006 3:23 AM John Williams has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by John Williams, posted 06-22-2006 1:48 AM LudoRephaim has responded

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 2440 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 122 of 134 (324698)
06-22-2006 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by LudoRephaim
06-19-2006 8:02 PM


Re: Goliath cubit
The common or short cubit was likely the measure which the Hebrew used for everyday measure, the Royal cubit was for priestly or governmental contruction projects and buildings. A common cubit was estimated at about 18 inches give or take a centimeter or two (18" corresponds perfectly to a 5 1/2 ft man; the cubit representing 27-28% of total stature). A span was the distance from thumb to smallest finger, or about 9 inches, half a cubit. Using standard measurements of the day, Goliath was basicaly 2 meters or more in stature: roughly 6'6-6'9, and this probably didn't include his helmet.

Yes, most ancient Semitic male skeletons excavated in Palestine have generally ranged from 5'3 to 5'7 from prehistoric to Roman times, with women about 4 inches shorter. This makes an average of 5'5. Even modern Jewish male populations have been measured by anthropologists through-out the years and the measurements are very much within this same range given geographic distrobution:

SAMARITANS OF PALESTINE: Mediterranean-caucasoid,tall, avg. 173cm [5'8].
JEWS OF PALESTININE C.1915: short stature of 159cm [5'3] and no blondism.
JEWS OF NORTH AFRICA: taller than Palestinian Jews, avg. 164-166cm [5'5].
JEWS OF TURKESTAN & AFGHANISTAN: moderate stature of 166cm[5'5]
JEWS OF THE CAUCASUS:163-166cm in stature [5'4-5'5].
THE KARAITE JEWS OF THE CRIMEA: 164.5 in stature [5'5].
ASHKENAZIM JEWS OF WESTERN EUROPE: ht varies from 162-167cm [5'4-5'6].

Sources: ANTHROPOMETRIC EFFECTS OF RECORDED CASES OF MISCEGENATION AMONG CERTAIN CAUCASIAN SUB-GROUPS https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/3737/1/V50N02_045.pdf

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1045&letter=S&search=stature

Furthermore, the skeletons of the Essene priests at Qumran averaged about 5'6.

Hope this helps.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-19-2006 8:02 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by arachnophilia, posted 06-22-2006 1:52 AM John Williams has responded
 Message 126 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-24-2006 10:07 AM John Williams has not yet responded

    
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 174 days)
Posts: 9068
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 123 of 134 (324699)
06-22-2006 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by John Williams
06-22-2006 1:48 AM


math nitpick
Yes, most ancient Semitic male skeletons excavated in Palestine have generally ranged from 5'3 to 5'7 ... This makes an average of 5'5.

no it doesn't. the average would depend on distribution within that general range.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by John Williams, posted 06-22-2006 1:48 AM John Williams has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by lfen, posted 06-22-2006 4:12 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded
 Message 125 by John Williams, posted 06-22-2006 11:04 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2119 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 124 of 134 (324721)
06-22-2006 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by arachnophilia
06-22-2006 1:52 AM


Re: math nitpick
Let me see if I can recall this correctly. That would make 5'5 the median height?

lfen

ABE: nevermind just as I clicked I realized I was wrong. Median would depend on the distribution also.

Edited by lfen, : realized as I clicked I had remembered it wrong


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by arachnophilia, posted 06-22-2006 1:52 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
John Williams
Member (Idle past 2440 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 125 of 134 (325081)
06-22-2006 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by arachnophilia
06-22-2006 1:52 AM


Re: math nitpick
lol.. well, I guess I was a bit wrong there.

Basicaly my point is that the common male Jew or Semite of ancient and even relatively modern Palestine (and other geographic settings) were generally within the 5 1/2 ft range, give or take an inch. By comparison, a modern white American male is 1.77 meters tall (5'10) on the average according to http://www.halls.md/chart/men-height-w.htm

The relative tallness of Americans is largely because of better nutrition and/or constitutionally taller stature due to genetics. Obviously, as can be seen, there was likely a range of stature to be found throughout the ancient people of Palestine, as movements of caucasoid, semitic, and Amernoid types settled the land.

Here are some interesting but not altogether unrelated height stats for Syrian males: http://phoenicia.org/anthropology.html

GENERAL RACIAL CHARECTERISTICS OF THE SYRIAN

Lebanon

1.67

Alawite

1.67

Damas

1.67

Homs-Hama-Alep

1.69

Arabic

1.64

Samaritans

1.70

Armenians

1.66

Greeks

1.66

Turkish

1.68

Curds

1.70


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by arachnophilia, posted 06-22-2006 1:52 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

    
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2525 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 126 of 134 (325633)
06-24-2006 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by John Williams
06-22-2006 1:48 AM


Re: Goliath cubit
Thanks for the sources dude :)

I'll try to get back to you shortly in dah thread. Vrey good.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by John Williams, posted 06-22-2006 1:48 AM John Williams has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Asteragros, posted 08-26-2006 5:45 AM LudoRephaim has not yet responded

  
Asteragros
Member (Idle past 841 days)
Posts: 40
From: Modena, Italy
Joined: 01-11-2002


Message 127 of 134 (343518)
08-26-2006 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by LudoRephaim
06-24-2006 10:07 AM


Re: Goliath cubit
If you really want to know the truth about Nephilìm, the 'sons of Elohìm' and the 'daughters of men' you have to compare the ENTIRE BIBLE (not only Genesis) with the ancient traditions, along with the recent discoveries of extra-long human bones.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-24-2006 10:07 AM LudoRephaim has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by John Williams, posted 08-26-2006 3:28 PM Asteragros has responded

    
John Williams
Member (Idle past 2440 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 128 of 134 (343666)
08-26-2006 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Asteragros
08-26-2006 5:45 AM


Re: Goliath cubit
"If you really want to know the truth about Nephilìm, the 'sons of Elohìm' and the 'daughters of men' you have to compare the ENTIRE BIBLE (not only Genesis) with the ancient traditions, along with the recent discoveries of extra-long human bones."

That would be a wide interpretation of the Nephilim, spanning not only the mid-east but far and wide.

Extra long human bones can be interpreted as Nephilim in the eye of the beholder. You could then also say that the WWE's Great Khali (7'3 420 lbs) is of the Nephilim, as his stature is similar to alleged giant bone discoveries.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Asteragros, posted 08-26-2006 5:45 AM Asteragros has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Asteragros, posted 09-13-2006 10:57 AM John Williams has responded

    
Asteragros
Member (Idle past 841 days)
Posts: 40
From: Modena, Italy
Joined: 01-11-2002


Message 129 of 134 (348718)
09-13-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by John Williams
08-26-2006 3:28 PM


Re: Goliath cubit
Sorry, to answer your argument I have to know the meanings of the abbreviation you use (WWE's) and... please, would you transform the U.S. measure units in European units? Thanks.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by John Williams, posted 08-26-2006 3:28 PM John Williams has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by John Williams, posted 09-17-2006 2:16 AM Asteragros has not yet responded

    
John Williams
Member (Idle past 2440 days)
Posts: 157
From: Oregon, US
Joined: 06-29-2004


Message 130 of 134 (349726)
09-17-2006 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Asteragros
09-13-2006 10:57 AM


Re: Goliath cubit
I was suggesting that in a sense, any large giant of a man, modern or ancient, could be considered Nephilim if we use a broad interpretaion.

WWE is America's World Wrestling Entertainment (proffesional wrestling) where they use big men for stunts and pre-arranged matches. Great Khali in metric units would be 2,20 m and 190 kgs, they also have another man named Big Show who is 2,15 m and 225 kgs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Asteragros, posted 09-13-2006 10:57 AM Asteragros has not yet responded

    
Origen
Member (Idle past 3733 days)
Posts: 52
Joined: 12-29-2006


Message 131 of 134 (372866)
12-29-2006 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LudoRephaim
04-25-2006 3:46 PM


The Nephilim were a product of the "sons of God" (i.e., "angels") that had sexual relations with human females. The Nephilim were the offspring that came from this evil. What the Nephilim were not were the sons of Seth. If the Nephilim were the sons of Seth then Genesis would have recorded "the sons of Seth" just as easy, but that is not what is written. The Nephilim no longer exist on earth today and pose no threat to our existence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LudoRephaim, posted 04-25-2006 3:46 PM LudoRephaim has not yet responded

    
Shynx
Junior Member (Idle past 3662 days)
Posts: 1
From: Calgary
Joined: 03-17-2007


Message 132 of 134 (390020)
03-17-2007 4:14 PM


Hi, i havnt read all of the other replies so im guessing that these answers will be posted already. My father currently works at a church, and was a pastor, also a teacher at a bible college, his father was also a pastor. So in terms of biblical content they are very knowledgable. Now to start off, the nephilim existed BEFORE the flood, and they were the result of wickedness. Basically when lucifer left heaven, some angels followed him. These are what we know as demons. Not at this period in time man was very wicked and evil, and the flood was what was used to destroy this evil. These "sons of god" are demons, because as i was taught and told, the nephilim were the result of possesed men with the hunger of flesh of demons breeding with human females. The result was the nephilim, a society of physically massive cruel men. They can best be compared to spartan men in terms of ideals etc. I have been told that it is quite possible that if hercules existed, he was one of the nephilim. They were characterized as being huge and physically strong, agressive, merciless, and wicked. I belive in the bible and therefore the nephilim, although i must admit i do not claim to be a christain.
Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Chiroptera, posted 03-17-2007 7:00 PM Shynx has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6353
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 133 of 134 (390024)
03-17-2007 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Shynx
03-17-2007 4:14 PM


quote:
I belive in the bible....

A very odd statement seeing that nothing you wrote is in the Bible.


Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Shynx, posted 03-17-2007 4:14 PM Shynx has not yet responded

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 2525 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 134 of 134 (478688)
08-19-2008 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by arachnophilia
05-29-2006 4:21 PM


Re: Big Saul
Its kind of an ambiguous phrasing. I would imagine there is a way, considering that lifting up one's head was a common turn of phrase

I meant to respond to this earlier, but lost track.

The above idea is highly unlikely; although Saul's Father was wealthy or a man of standing(1 Sam 9:1), Saul himself admits that he comes from the smallest Hebrew tribe (Benjamin) and that his family is the least significant (1 Sam 9:21). When viewed by the Israelites for the first time as their apointed king, He towered over them all, and Samuel points out his height, saying that there was no other among the Israelites like him (1 Sam 10:20-24). Plus When theProphet Samuel saw one of David's brothers (Eliab), he thought that he had found the next king of Israel due to his appraeance and physical height, which causes God to caution him about appearances (1 Sam 16:6-7).

Edited by LudoRephaim, : overkill

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by arachnophilia, posted 05-29-2006 4:21 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
Prev1
...
45678
9
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017