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Author Topic:   The Obama Nation
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 171 (478816)
08-20-2008 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by QED99
08-20-2008 10:16 PM


Red Herring Charge
QED99 writes:
Oh please. All this, "He's a Muslim", He's a socialist" rhetoric is simply a red herring, so ridiculous even on the surface that no informed person can possibly take it seriously.
Hi QED99. Welcome to EvC. If this is so much of a red herring, you surely should have no problem in substantiating your claim by stating your reasons why it's a red herring. Please educate us all on the www here.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by QED99, posted 08-20-2008 10:16 PM QED99 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Rahvin, posted 08-20-2008 11:44 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 71 by QED99, posted 08-21-2008 12:25 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 171 (478820)
08-20-2008 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Rahvin
08-20-2008 10:25 PM


Re: Communism/Socialism
Rahvin writes:
And as usual, you've insisted that Obama's "bad" because his policies are "socialist" without describing how they are socialist or why that would be bad.
Rahvin, did you even read my message in this very thread regarding his socialism before posting your personl attack?
Edited by Buzsaw, : correct link

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Rahvin, posted 08-20-2008 10:25 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Rahvin, posted 08-20-2008 11:41 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 72 by Shield, posted 08-21-2008 1:58 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 171 (478912)
08-21-2008 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Rahvin
08-20-2008 11:44 PM


Re: Red Herring Charge
Rahvin writes:
Because a presidential candidate's religion is compeltely irrelevant to his candidacy, unless you're a racist idiot like you, Buz.
YOU NEED TO EITHER RETRACT THE PERSONAL ATTACK RACIST CHARGE OR CITE ANY RACIST STATEMENT THAT I POSTED, RAHVIN Otherwise we'll need to deal with your message in the forum for that purpose.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Rahvin, posted 08-20-2008 11:44 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Rahvin, posted 08-21-2008 11:14 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 82 by Rahvin, posted 08-21-2008 11:23 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 83 by DrJones*, posted 08-21-2008 11:25 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 171 (478914)
08-21-2008 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by cavediver
08-21-2008 4:26 AM


Re: Communism/Socialism
Cavediver writes:
*choke* err, Buz, are you now so demented that you are comparing Obama to Hitler ???
I'm sorry, Buz, it's rude to laugh at someone in your condition - but don't worry, we're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you
Go ahead and laugh your silly heads off, fools!
1. Hitler was very popular in Germany before and after gaining power.
2. Hitler was a slick and capable orator who chould appear as all things to all citizens.
3. Hitler's policies were quite socialistic.
4. Hitler promised change and the people got change.
5. Hitler was what some refer to as a messiah figure.
Obama was all of the above and there's more, but these come to my mind for examples of similarities at present.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by cavediver, posted 08-21-2008 4:26 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by subbie, posted 08-21-2008 11:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 98 by kuresu, posted 08-22-2008 2:12 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 171 (478918)
08-21-2008 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Rahvin
08-21-2008 11:14 PM


Re: Red Herring Charge
Rahvin writes:
This entire fucking thread is a testament to your racism, bigot. The entire point from the beginning has been "Obama is a secret Muslim out to destroy America!"
Because of his skin color and "foreign-sounding" name, you have repeatedly insisted that he is in actuality a Muslim, withotu any real evidence that this is the case, and you've pretended that his religion matters.
You've been claiming in virtually this entire thread that Obama is secretly a terrorist, Buz, based solely on his name, skin color, and a few details about his early childhood. That is racism.
1. WRONG: Muslims are of all races and colors.
2. WRONG: Foreign names can be attributed to all races, organizations and colors.
3. WRONG: Religion has nothing to do with race.
4. WRONG: I've never made racist remarks relative to his skin color.
5. WRONG: I've never called Obama a secret terrorist. I've cited cites associating him with a known terrorist, William Ayres. (Spelling?)
NONE OF THE ABOVE IS RACIST, RAHVIN! IT'S ALL A PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME WHICH YOU NEED TO RETRACT!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Rahvin, posted 08-21-2008 11:14 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by subbie, posted 08-21-2008 11:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 171 (478919)
08-21-2008 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by DrJones*
08-21-2008 11:25 PM


Re: Red Herring Charge
WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH OBAMA, JONSEY??

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by DrJones*, posted 08-21-2008 11:25 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by DrJones*, posted 08-21-2008 11:32 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 99 by kuresu, posted 08-22-2008 2:15 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 171 (478922)
08-21-2008 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Rahvin
08-21-2008 11:23 PM


Re: Red Herring Charge
1. Obama has attended a racist church for 20 years which has been closely associated with racist people like Louis Farrakan. How does that make me a racist by stating facts? It implicates Obama, not me, as racist.
2. Whether or not I'm correct in believing the cites about his association to terrorists has nothing to do with me making racist statements about Obama. It has nothing watsoever to do with race.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Rahvin, posted 08-21-2008 11:23 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by subbie, posted 08-21-2008 11:49 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 91 by Rahvin, posted 08-22-2008 12:02 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 92 by Shield, posted 08-22-2008 4:31 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 171 (478938)
08-22-2008 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by subbie
08-21-2008 11:49 PM


Re: Red Herring Charge
subbie writes:
Interesting defense. You're not a racist because your hatemongering is instead based on religious bigotry
How does citing his association with terrorism make one racist?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by subbie, posted 08-21-2008 11:49 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 171 (478939)
08-22-2008 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Shield
08-22-2008 4:31 AM


Re: Still no socialism
rbp writes:
I've provided you with a goverment source for finding these thing out, and you have yet show me any thing he has ever done that's 'socialistic'.
Rbp, aside from his socialist and communist/Markcist past connections cited, I've addressed his socialistic redistribution ambitions for America.
What would your response be to that?
How is that different from Obama’s dream of taxing the rich in order to equalize people’s economic condition? Castro confiscates and redistributes 100 percent. Obama wants to confiscate and redistribute, say, 30 percent. Big deal. The difference is one of degree, not one of principle. Socialism is socialism.
At least the Cuban people recognize that they live under a socialist order. The American people have permitted themselves to be convinced that their system continues to be “free enterprise.” In fact, when you confront an ordinary American with the fact that public (i.e., government) schooling and government-provided health care are the core elements of Fidel Castro’s system, they’re likely to say, “You mean Castro is finally adopting free enterprise?” The sad plight of the American people can be summed up with the words of Johann von Goethe: “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Shield, posted 08-22-2008 4:31 AM Shield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Modulous, posted 08-22-2008 9:56 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 96 by subbie, posted 08-22-2008 1:25 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 97 by Chiroptera, posted 08-22-2008 1:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 100 by Shield, posted 08-22-2008 3:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 171 (478981)
08-22-2008 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by kuresu
08-22-2008 2:12 PM


Re: Hitler is Obama?
Kuresu writes:
The key thing you're missing in your comparison of Hitler and Obama is the aspect of militarization and complete disregard for international treaties. Obama has yet to advocate the strengthening of our economy by tripling our war-machine. In fact, he's doing the opposite--saying let's shrink it by getting out of Iraq and spending the money on domestic issues. Obama has also yet to propose a "take over the world" scheme to build pride in a devastated nation. Do you seriously think he will?
Another key point you miss is that the US of 2008 is nothing like the Germany of 1932. Our recession is not the Great Depression of the 1920s for Germany (their's being far worse than our GD).
So yeah, I think I will laugh at your comparison on the two because, as usual, you've got things so, so wrong.
So far as your attempt to refute my position, your message is pointless, Kuresu. Why don't you address the items listed in my message?
Of course Hitler, Germany and the US were not exactly alike. There were, however, striking similarities which you can't just laugh off.
Below are the ones listed in my message #81.
1. Hitler was very popular in Germany before and after gaining power.
2. Hitler was a slick and capable orator who chould appear as all things to all citizens.
3. Hitler's policies were quite socialistic.
4. Hitler promised change and the people got change.
5. Hitler was what some refer to as a messiah figure.
I said, there's more, such as:
Hitler was a white suppremicist.
Obama's church which he attended and substantially supported is black suppremacist oriented and having associations with The Nation Of Islam, awarded black suppremacist Louis Farrakhan it's highest award.
" In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black Theology of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until whites begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being: 'How can we become black?'" [9]
No, Buzsaw is not the racist bigot. Buzsaw is simply citing the highly implicated racism of the man who may become the most powerful person in America and perhaps the world.
Edited by Buzsaw, : change word

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by kuresu, posted 08-22-2008 2:12 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by DrJones*, posted 08-22-2008 9:39 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 105 by subbie, posted 08-22-2008 10:13 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 114 by kuresu, posted 08-23-2008 12:59 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 171 (478984)
08-22-2008 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Shield
08-22-2008 3:24 PM


Re: Still no socialism
rbp writes:
I really dont think you have any idea what socialism is nor do i think you have much knowledge about any other political ideologies.
No, Rbp. The problem is that in your ignorance of how political ideologies come to be, they don't suddenly happen. For example, Sweden's socialistically oriented democracy is not yet what Stalin's USSR totalitary socialistic regime was. Savvy?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Shield, posted 08-22-2008 3:24 PM Shield has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-22-2008 10:31 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 113 by kuresu, posted 08-23-2008 12:38 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 171 (478987)
08-22-2008 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by DrJones*
08-22-2008 9:39 PM


Re: Hitler is Obama?
Dr Jones writes:
so you didn't say:
"God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel."
I did say that cherry picked statement and yes I did cite the scriptural references to it.
I also said this in that very same thread which you quote mined your cherry picked link out of.
1. I go with the science on that one. Though I'd rather have a good Christian black daughter-in-law than an atheist or even a secularist one, the science seems to be that the majority tendency is to prefer one's own color and race. All one need do is go in the churches and neighborhoods, of the world to come to that conclusion. History attests to it.
2. I would advise a single son to marry into his own race since God created the races but if my son came home with a black bride I and wifie would go out of our way to make the new bride feel welcome and treat her as we would a white one.
Furthermore, Doc, I believe it was somewhere in that thread that I spoke of when I voted for black Catholic candidate Allan Keys when he made his first run for president.
I made the point that Keys was a Catholic since I've also been critical of that religion for various reasons.
Buzsaw be no racist and no bigot. Buzsaw b 4 u 2 c y Buz saw.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by DrJones*, posted 08-22-2008 9:39 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by subbie, posted 08-22-2008 10:21 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 110 by DrJones*, posted 08-22-2008 10:28 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 171 (478989)
08-22-2008 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by subbie
08-22-2008 10:13 PM


Re: Point by point refutation
Subbie, obviously you're running outa gas. I see nothing in your message worth my time to address further.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by subbie, posted 08-22-2008 10:13 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by subbie, posted 08-22-2008 10:25 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 171 (479019)
08-23-2008 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by kuresu
08-23-2008 12:59 AM


Re: Hitler is Obama?
Kuresu, again, your refutation attempt is pointless. All you did was to cite various people in history who match up something similar to these.
This discussion is relative to the 2008 election and all of the similarities which I've cited pertain to these two men.
My position is not that Hitler = Obama. It is that there are significant similarities.
I might add that like in Germany when Hitler rose to power, the occult was on the increase and apostacy from Christianity to secularism was becoming more prevalent among the citizenry as now is the case in America.
Hitler also appealed to the youth and energized them as is the case with Obama.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by kuresu, posted 08-23-2008 12:59 AM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Modulous, posted 08-23-2008 11:17 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 171 (479037)
08-23-2008 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Minnemooseus
08-22-2008 10:31 PM


Re: Why the Russian revolution of 1917
Moose writes:
Capitalism tends to work because it appeals to one of man's baser instincts - greed and self interest. Communism and socialism, on the other hand, has a greater concern for the common well being of community and society.
So, why are you such a knee-jerk supporter of an economy based on greed? Might there not also be proper room for policy more aimed at taking care of community and society?
1. The greedy are more apt to be those who want more than they deserve or have earned by legitimate enterprise and work.
2. It is the capitalist nations, America in particular, which have been the benevolent good Samaritans globally, particularly on the continent of Africa, Haite, the islands, etc. The Indonesian Tsumani, Berlin Air Lift, nearly all earthquake and other disaster areas have been beneficiaries of the affluent capitalists, largly Christian orientated.
3. Where have the secularist USSR, Comunist nations, Muslm totalitarian nations etc been when disaster or need have arisen globally?
4. The work ethic, ingenuity, and benevolence, all of which are most prevalent in capitalist nations are not products of base instincts or of communistic and socialistic regimes.
5. Whatever government subsidizes, increases. Subsidized milk = more milk. Subsidized tobacco = more tobacco. Subsidize poverty = more poverty. The greater the gravy train gets, the more who hop aboard. That's greed. That's self interest. That's base instinct.
Moose writes:
But it is the wealthy that have the resources to contribute to the betterment of community and society. The system has been good to the wealthy - Why shouldn't they pay back to help maintain the overall health of the community and society that made them wealthy? Some of them are, some are not.
1. Soaking the more affluent work producers, employers and enterprising intelligent and ingenious builders of society and the result is that they have less incentive to produce, less capital to hire and less to build, less income for government to tax and less means of expanding the economy.
2. Redistribution of one man's hard earned capital to the nonproductive poor becomes an incentive to poverty.
3. Socialism promotes political corruption. The more the polititions promise the poor and even the lower middle income, the more votes they will receive from the majority less affluent.
Moose writes:
Or do we now need a new American revolution, where those that have material wealth far beyond any practical need get killed.
This has never been the case in history. The only revolutions which have been needful have been relative to freedom in nations. Last century over a hundred million were killed since the Bolshevik Revolution by their own Socialistic governments, many of the victims being the affluent, the industrious and the productive.
I've said the above to say that the aspirations of Obama and the Democratic Party to redistribute the earnings of the affluent to the poor, so many who are non-productive, will change America forever, as the man promises.
I was born in Nebraska in 1935 in the midst of both severe drout and depression. Nobody starved. Neighbor helped neighbor. Some, like my family relocated from the drout. People scrimped and sacrificed to become the most prosperous nation on the planet via free enterprise capitalism, benevolence, reverence to God and hard work.
That's it for now, Moose. Perhaps I can get back to more.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-22-2008 10:31 PM Minnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Jaderis, posted 08-24-2008 5:19 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 121 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-24-2008 5:50 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 128 by crashfrog, posted 07-31-2010 1:35 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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