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Author | Topic: Have complex human-made things been designed? | |||||||||||||||||||
onifre Member (Idle past 2951 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
AOkid writes,
All created by the code within the organisms DNA. Right, but where did the DNA come from? I've read your arguments before, you seem to suggest that DNA cannot be broken down into several components that naturally came to be, through a natural process, what we now call DNA. Can DNA arrise from natural causes? From pre-existing natural chemicals? From pre-existing enviromental conditions? etc, etc.. Or can it only be explained through design? A design that would have to come to be from nothingness mind you. In other words God, or the Designer(since that is the new bullshit euphemism for God), would have to have made DNA appear spontaniously, because if He/She used natural chemicals and brought them together, and took the enviromental conditions into consideration, then basically you are saying that God used natural processes and natural components to organize DNA. At that point you are just invoking God because of pre-existing belief in a God. As suggested by the OP, nothing comes from nothing, I think thats what andorg meant. So are all of the components for DNA found before DNA is known to have appeared? If ALL of the components for it are available before DNA is known to have appeared, then a normal natural process can, and should be, assumed...unless you can prove otherwise. "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2951 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
AOkid writes,
It came from the design of God as well as a myriad of other things did. Prove it.
There is no naturally occurring process to create DNA. I did not say that there IS, I said that you seem to suggest that there CANNOT be, a natural process... What is known science is that there are NO supernatural processes ever found thru experiments and/or observations. Note that im not saying that there AREN'T any, im saying that none have been shown to exist using the scientific method.
There is no naturally occurring process to create DNA. Again, I did NOT say there IS, however, you have absolutely NO evidence to support that statement. You have no idea if there are or aren't, you assume there aren't. I don't want to get into the details of abiogen since it is not the topic so lets stay focused. Pre-existing conditions for a natural process...thats what I am saying there IS.
but it can be explained through design. Anything can be explained if your explanation is 'God-did-it', but you will fail when you attempt to show HOW 'God-did-it'. If we have pre-existing chemical components, then we have what we need for a natural process to take place.
I think you have my faith confused with yours. You believe that everything we see came from nothing. I do not. I think it came from nothing? WHAT??? I said the pre-existing components are there for a natural process, you said..
AOkid writes,
First, define 'a myraid of other things', cause that sounds like 'I don't know how God-did-it'.It came from the design of God as well as a myriad of other things did. Second, where did God get all of the components? Did He make the components first, then came back a few million years later to reorganize the components to create DNA, or what? Give me some kind of specifics here... Spontaneous natural chemical reactions is what you believe in. Are you suggesting that there are NO spontaneous chemical reactions???Spontaneous process - Wikipedia How about these,Spontaneous abortion Spontaneous bacterial peritonitis Spontaneous combustion Spontaneous emission Spontaneous fission Spontaneous generation Spontaneous human combustion Spontaneous Music Ensemble Spontaneous order Spontaneous process Spontaneous remission Spontaneous symmetry breaking The planning and making may use preexisting items that you may label as natural. Ok, then where did the pre-existing 'items' come from? And don't you dare say God spontaneously made them
According to the Bible, all of the components of DNA were present before God used them to create organisms. Ok, so where did the pre-existing crap come from...other pre-existing crap? Come on man, don't give me this circular bullshit, explain what you mean. You are saying God made DNA from pre-existing components that He 'planned' to put together as DNA. Ok, where did those pre-existing components come from? At some point something had to magically appear from nothing, or a magic hat, or some other demention, something. Explain that 'something'. Where does God get the components?
Why should a natural process be assumed, when I believe according to the scripture that God is involved with every natural process. Because its wrong to think that. Just as it was wrong to think that God caused eclipses.
Now I may not agree with the BBT from a scientific standpoint, but both of us must agree that the universe didn't come from nothing. Agreed.
I believe that what it did come from designed the universe, the earth, and life within it. Yes, all the physical laws of the universe are required for life, Earth, galaxies etc, etc...Where does God come in?
Do you want me to list the concepts that science was wrong on? Yes, and then give me a list of who discovered that certain things in science were wrong...I BET IT WAS A FUCKIN SCIENTIST
It is ever changing and ever correcting. Yes by scientist.
That is a good thing. Yes, it is a good thing when scientist can correct their mistakes. That way we continue to progress in our knowledge of nature.
That alone is evidence that I don't want to put my trust in science, because the probability of error is so high. So let me see if I follow your reasoning. 1. You believe science makes mistakes.2. You are happy to see when those mistakes are corrected using the scientific method. 3. You believe that it is a good thing to correct those scientific errors and get the right answers to problems that scientist work on. 4. You don't trust science. Im sorry but im having trouble understanding your logic here. Who do you think makes the corrections to the scientifc problems? "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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onifre Member (Idle past 2951 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
AOkid writes,
All of these processes tear apart DNA, but no processes are known which put it together. You'll have to explain how, with evidence to support it because this statement doesn't make much sense when spouted out undetailed.
*You write, 1. Science suggests this. Yet,
quote: -SCIENCE SUPPORTS IT-
*You write, 2. The evidence suggests this. Yet
quote: -THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTS IT-
*You write, 3. The law of biogenesis suggests this. (This is not even an issue since we are discussing Abiogenesis, and not biogenesis.) -THE LAW OF BIOGENESIS DOES NOT APPLY HERE-
*You write, 4. The presence of oxygen suggest this. Yet,
quote: -OXYGEN IS NOT THOUGHT TO BE PRESENT-
*You write, 4. Hydrolysis suggest this. Yet,
quote: NOT protiens! -PROTIENS ARE NOT AT RISK-
You write, 5. Thermodynamic processes suggest this. Yet,
quote: Without entertaining the rest of your post your original argument that "Science suggests that abiogenesis cannot accure through a natural process" seems to be completely unsupported by SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to the contrary. Edited by onifre, : shits and giggles "All great truths begin as blasphemies" "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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