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Author Topic:   Logical Proof of Existence of a Divine Creator, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 88 of 175 (487685)
11-03-2008 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ypostelnik
06-11-2008 4:54 AM


There is logic in not believing the unproven and illogical.
It is quite logical to question a miracle working God. Especially one who has shown that He does not mind using genocide against man.
My definition of God does not include miracle worker. If it did I would have to consider God immoral for holding back and not stepping up.
If is not logical to question the reality of talking snakes, then whoever says this is a fool.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ypostelnik, posted 06-11-2008 4:54 AM ypostelnik has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Brian, posted 11-04-2008 7:56 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 90 by onifre, posted 11-05-2008 2:21 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 91 of 175 (487832)
11-05-2008 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Brian
11-04-2008 7:56 AM


Back it up or shut it up.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Brian, posted 11-04-2008 7:56 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Brian, posted 11-06-2008 8:38 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 92 of 175 (487834)
11-05-2008 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by onifre
11-05-2008 2:21 PM


How could I find a God who uses genocide against man moral.
The God of the literal Bible is a genocidal maniac. The Bible may help lead some to God but to read it literally shows a God that must hate men. He kills us often enough.
God is real bit not the loser of scripture.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by onifre, posted 11-05-2008 2:21 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by onifre, posted 11-06-2008 12:27 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 99 of 175 (487935)
11-06-2008 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Brian
11-06-2008 8:38 AM


Brian
I don't know what a Postelnit is and I have no time to read a bunch of information when a line or two from you would sum it up.
Speak or go away. Most Good points are short.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Brian, posted 11-06-2008 8:38 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Brian, posted 11-06-2008 6:13 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 100 of 175 (487938)
11-06-2008 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dr Jack
11-06-2008 12:03 PM


Furthermore what type of definition for God is there other than what is founded in scriptures?
That acquired through personal revelation and meditation, and group discussion.
If I may.
Many religions have an Alpha and Omega type miracle worker God. Many have not. Their Gods are more down to earth shall we say.
My God is more of a cosmic conscience and it happens to be mans next evolution.
This brings me to the last remark made.
You mention personal revelation. People today will not believe someone else’s personal revelation.
Since coming out, shall we say as a, prophet, I have gained nothing but ridicule, except thank God, for the odd open mind.
The prophets of yesterday wrote scripture. The prophet of today, well you know the word most used.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dr Jack, posted 11-06-2008 12:03 PM Dr Jack has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 101 of 175 (487939)
11-06-2008 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by onifre
11-06-2008 12:27 PM


onifre
Animals do not speak. Let’s get that straight. Snakes do not talk and fish do not spit out men after three days.
I don’t care which fundamental told you these were real but they are not.
Going extinct is a natural process. Species are always in flux. Lower animals have no quarrel with God. He did not genocide their ass. He did ours.
We are the ones God should say He is sorry to if you want to believe in the genocidal maniac.
God does not kill. He can only advise. The writer of Genesis spun a tricky tale to make us think there was or is a miracle working God but there is not.
That writer was brilliant in the sense that He named God, the WORD.
That I all that God offers man. It is a wish of folly to expect more from a corporeal existence.
Thank God it does not end here or all of us would be disappointed at death.
God is a cosmic conscience. Our next evolution.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by onifre, posted 11-06-2008 12:27 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Brian, posted 11-06-2008 6:16 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 104 by onifre, posted 11-06-2008 6:57 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 105 of 175 (487956)
11-06-2008 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Brian
11-06-2008 6:13 PM


Who else can judge God other than men?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Brian, posted 11-06-2008 6:13 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Brian, posted 11-07-2008 4:03 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 106 of 175 (487957)
11-06-2008 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by onifre
11-06-2008 6:57 PM


onifre
You are correct I should have said except humans but remember that fundamentals do not acknowledge our animal side.
As to other animals, God does not quarrel with meat.
A select few? Does Noah ring a bell.
Millions dead including innocent children and babies.
God kept a select few to fuck things up again and drowned the rest.
A poor farmer indeed to sow so many and reap so few.
Should man judge God? Yes.
Who else can?

Thank God it does not end here or all of us would be disappointed at death.
How do you know that?
I had the pleasure and pain of the one contact with God. He is a cosmic conscience.
No miracles. Just the WORD.
I do not judge belief. I only judge Gods. There are many of each.
We all follow a God, be Him from a religion or a political system. We all believe in one of these Gods.
They should all be judged.
How else are we to know why we follow any one of them?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by onifre, posted 11-06-2008 6:57 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 11:00 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 134 by Blue Jay, posted 11-08-2008 3:39 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 109 of 175 (487987)
11-07-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Brian
11-07-2008 4:03 AM


Judge God based on what laws?
Just because by human standards the God fo the Hebrew Bible is a bloodthirsty evil tyrant, this doesn't mean that He actually is.
How do you know that slaughtering humans isn't a good thing in the divine courts?
The only laws we have are the laws of man.
Nothing has ever been written or spoken that was not written or spoken by man.
If He looks like a tyrant then what else can we call Him. A loving tyrant? A tyrant that does not really want to kill us but He loves us and that is why He kills us.
If your divine court says that it is OK to use genocide on humans then you can shove your divine court up God's divine ass.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Brian, posted 11-07-2008 4:03 AM Brian has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 111 of 175 (488051)
11-07-2008 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by onifre
11-07-2008 11:00 AM


So, you had a spiritual experience and you created your own version of God? You are no better than the people who wrote the Bible that you claim were wrong in what they wrote. They had a spiritual experience and wrote about it, you had one too and are writing about it here, what makes you any better? Why should your subjective experience be worth more than someone elses?
"I do not judge belief. I only judge Gods. There are many of each.
Thats not what I said, and you are judging beliefs in God. You claim superiority in your belief and in your God. This is religious arrogance, the same that is shown by the very fundamentalist that you ridicule so much. You just do it at a more toned down level. But you are showing arrogance in your belief in God."
I judged your other comments to not be worthy of thought.
Firstly, I cannot judge anyone's beliefs. Ii cannot tell the contexts of their belief. I accept that they have a belief.
There is nothing wrong with well placed arrogance. Mine is not based on a talking snake so I resent the association.
We then look at the issue and then the fight starts.
My God is not superior to the miracle making God. He is just real.
I am not better than the writers of scripture, they, like all of us today do the best with what we have. I just have the update.
My experience in speaking to God is no better than anyone else's. There are just very few of us who have.
I have. Have you? Who then should teach who?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 11:00 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 1:53 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 120 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 6:07 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 113 of 175 (488057)
11-07-2008 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Stile
11-07-2008 1:53 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
That just put me as another of many voices.
There is no proof of God that can be shown. Non corporeal remember.
No faith gives God substance.
While my wife lives I have a witness to telepathy and while I live I will say that I made contact with the mind of God one time.
That is all I need.
If others need more, they will not find it in me.
God, my God that is, does not do miracles. Just words as rendered through me.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 1:53 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:16 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 136 by Brian, posted 11-08-2008 4:00 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 115 of 175 (488075)
11-07-2008 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Stile
11-07-2008 2:16 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
You ask the impossible.
Firstly, is there any proof that you would accept. There is none so there is nothing I can tell you for an answer. No religion has the proof that you seek. If so name it.
Secondly, I do not claim perfection except in the sense that perfection is always in flux or in evolution. We are all perfect at any given moment but the next moment can and does make us better. Like in a more perfect union as the US constitution says.
I include you in this definition of perfection.
What other than a miracle would you believe?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:16 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:53 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 117 of 175 (488085)
11-07-2008 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Stile
11-07-2008 2:53 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
You seek a death to religion.
Good luck.
In the meantime I like all others in the world will speak of what I know and believe.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Stile, posted 11-07-2008 2:53 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by rueh, posted 11-07-2008 4:02 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 124 by Stile, posted 11-08-2008 10:10 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 119 of 175 (488101)
11-07-2008 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by rueh
11-07-2008 4:02 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
just keep on talking.
Communication with God I do not call a miracle. This communication is triggered by man, not God. He responds, He does not initiate.
The cosmic conscience is our next evolution. It is a natural progression. No miracles.
If God wanted us to believe in miracles He would have left one here for us to contemplate. He has not and cannot do miracles.
We attribute miracles to God wrongly. They are a human want only.
Regards
DL

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Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 122 of 175 (488154)
11-08-2008 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by onifre
11-07-2008 6:07 PM


"I have had spiritual experiences but I don't attribute it to a God. It was a subjective experience, period."
Spiritual but not God?
Lets have the story.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 6:07 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by onifre, posted 11-11-2008 6:39 PM Greatest I am has not replied

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