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Author Topic:   Logical Proof of Existence of a Divine Creator, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 121 of 175 (488111)
11-07-2008 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 5:33 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Hello Greatest I am,
The cosmic conscience is our next evolution. It is a natural progression. No miracles.
Are you sure that you haven't mistaken the film 2001: A Space Odyssey for a documentary?
This comment is all very well as speculation, but you state it as though it were a matter of fact. Is this meant to be inevitable or is it just an idea?
Mutate and Survive.

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 5:33 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 9:05 AM Granny Magda has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 122 of 175 (488154)
11-08-2008 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by onifre
11-07-2008 6:07 PM


"I have had spiritual experiences but I don't attribute it to a God. It was a subjective experience, period."
Spiritual but not God?
Lets have the story.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 6:07 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by onifre, posted 11-11-2008 6:39 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 123 of 175 (488155)
11-08-2008 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Granny Magda
11-07-2008 6:56 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
We have no choice. We all get to heaven and if you apply the idea to a God then it just shows what all perfect Gods should do. Never loses a soul.
Most believe that God has a heaven for good souls and a hell for evil ones. All souls are created perfect and are destined for reward.
God does not do oops while creating.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Granny Magda, posted 11-07-2008 6:56 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Granny Magda, posted 11-08-2008 12:22 PM Greatest I am has replied

Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 124 of 175 (488159)
11-08-2008 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Greatest I am
11-07-2008 3:06 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Greatest I am writes:
You seek a death to religion.
I only seek to stop people from difinitively stating something about reality that they don't even know is actually a part of reality.
I seek to stop lies and deceit, which is what you are doing. If you cannot determine the difference between reality and imagination, you cannot claim that it is a part of reality. That is lying.
In the meantime I like all others in the world will speak of what I know and believe.
Not all others. Only all the other liars, who also cannot tell the difference between reality and their imagination.
I do not tell someone that something I think is true is actually true. I still tell them, but I let them know that it is something I cannot show for sure, and then they can judge for themselves.
Anything less is lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Greatest I am, posted 11-07-2008 3:06 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 12:11 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 125 of 175 (488165)
11-08-2008 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Stile
11-08-2008 10:10 AM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Have I not done that here?
I did say there was no proof.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Stile, posted 11-08-2008 10:10 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 126 of 175 (488166)
11-08-2008 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Greatest I am
11-08-2008 9:05 AM


Re: Just another baseless claim
GIA, go back and read my post again. Do you see the bit where I asked about who goes to heaven? No, neither do I. That's because I didn't ask about heaven.
Nonetheless, you seem to have inadvertently answered my question. You seem very very sure about all the stuff you are telling everyone. A little too sure in fact.
Stile is right. You are making statements about God and the universe as though you were uttering absolute fact. In reality, all you have is speculation. We were just hoping that you might try and phrase your output in less certain and more honest terms, that's all.
Since you admit that you have no proof, all you really have is a set of opinions and ideas. Why not phrase things that way, with an element of doubt? It would make you come across as much less of a blowhard.
At least, I think it would...
Mutate and Survive.

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 9:05 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 12:38 PM Granny Magda has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 127 of 175 (488170)
11-08-2008 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Granny Magda
11-08-2008 12:22 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Thanks for the advise but "In reality, all you have is speculation."
does not apply. Speculation is built on imagination. I am aware of when I use my imagination. I am aware when I do not. A specific event prompted my thinking. Not a self created scenario.
What kind of fool would say that he spoke to God and the message is think demographically. If I were to use even a small amount of imagination I hope I could come up with a better word of wisdom than that. On the surface the message is meaningless. Only looking at it in depth dose one gleam why I and others should think this way. Try it to see if it is a wise thing to do. If yes then the message is plausible. If not, from my point of view, it falls on death ears.
If so then you will have to look elsewhere for wisdom.
This I cannot control. All I can control is what I say and try to speak the truth in what my views are.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Granny Magda, posted 11-08-2008 12:22 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Granny Magda, posted 11-08-2008 1:04 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 128 of 175 (488175)
11-08-2008 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Greatest I am
11-08-2008 12:38 PM


Re: Just another baseless claim
Thanks for the advise but "In reality, all you have is speculation."
does not apply.
Oh really? Let's take another look at this;
Greatest I am writes:
The cosmic conscience is our next evolution. It is a natural progression.
Clearly this statement is about the future. So, for you to avoid baseless speculation, you must have some evidence (You have admitted that you don't) or be able to see into the future with absolute accuracy (I'm guessing you can't do that either).
That makes it speculation. Pretending that it is something more concrete is arrogant and absurd. It actually makes you sound less convincing than if you were to admit that you were speculating.
A specific event prompted my thinking. Not a self created scenario.
Do tell.
Mutate and Survive.

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 12:38 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 129 of 175 (488177)
11-08-2008 1:18 PM


If I were just expressing imaginary thoughts or outright lying then one would wonder as to what is motivating this untruth.
There is no profit in the type of discussion that my claims make. I have nothing to gain by my position other than ridicule.
Why would any one open themselves to ridicule. I can think of no reason, other than just fun. I find no fun in not being believed.
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Vacate, posted 11-08-2008 1:42 PM Greatest I am has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4601 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 130 of 175 (488179)
11-08-2008 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Greatest I am
11-08-2008 1:18 PM


Why bother?
Greatest I am writes:
If I were just expressing imaginary thoughts or outright lying then one would wonder as to what is motivating this untruth.
I don't know about you but I do see this happening quite often in people who are trying to express a religious viewpoint. It appears to be a method of converting people to a revealed truth but lack any evidence.
I have nothing to gain by my position other than ridicule.
Similar to martyrdom in that one expects to gain credibility for ones claims by having nothing to gain but negative reactions from critics.
Why would any one open themselves to ridicule. I can think of no reason, other than just fun.
Now how can you say that knowing about the story of Jesus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 1:18 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 1:58 PM Vacate has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 131 of 175 (488181)
11-08-2008 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Vacate
11-08-2008 1:42 PM


Re: Why bother?
Jesus wanted to upgrade the thinking of His time.
It is true that I too want to do the same.
As to converting others, when we reach heaven God does not care which God we follow as long as our hearts are good. Whatever that means to each of us.
None are refused regardless of our moral condition at death.
I can only do what I think my duty to God and my fellow man dictates.
I can only express my God's ideas of morality. If they are the same for the reader then I do not care what he call his God. It is the philosophy that is important, not the name of God.
If one must lie to express his God then I would think that their God is weird. Like fundamentals who believe in talking snakes. If it takes such to express their God then those intelligent enough to reject this impossibility are right in looking elsewhere for God.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Vacate, posted 11-08-2008 1:42 PM Vacate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Vacate, posted 11-08-2008 2:28 PM Greatest I am has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4601 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 132 of 175 (488182)
11-08-2008 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Greatest I am
11-08-2008 1:58 PM


Re: Why bother?
Greatest I am writes:
It is true that I too want to do the same.
That would seem to be your motivation.
If one must lie to express his God then I would think that their God is weird.
I am choosing to leave any judgement about your having lied or not to others you are in discussion with. I wished only to point out that your having stated you had nothing to gain is an indirect attempt at gaining something: credibility for your viewpoint. Ridicule can be a method for reaching that goal, as I said, its similar to martyrdom.
Some people do it so often they are said to be "lying for jesus", apparently honestly is not an important quality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 1:58 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 3:14 PM Vacate has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 133 of 175 (488188)
11-08-2008 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Vacate
11-08-2008 2:28 PM


Re: Why bother?
" Some people do it so often they are said to be "lying for jesus", apparently honestly is not an important quality."
To me it is an imperative.
I have a bad memory and would get caught if I lied. This, if nothing else keeps me straight.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Vacate, posted 11-08-2008 2:28 PM Vacate has not replied

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 134 of 175 (488189)
11-08-2008 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Greatest I am
11-06-2008 9:44 PM


Hi, Greatest I Am
GIAm writes:
As to other animals, God does not quarrel with meat.
Just a thought: what distinction do you think God would make between "meat" and people? From His perspective, aren't we just "meat" too? Why should you think He would see us as anything more than we see, for instance, badgers?

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Greatest I am, posted 11-06-2008 9:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Greatest I am, posted 11-08-2008 3:58 PM Blue Jay has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 135 of 175 (488190)
11-08-2008 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Blue Jay
11-08-2008 3:39 PM


If we are meat to God then He should keep out of our affairs.
If He wants to be relevant to us then He must speak our language to e understood.
If not then He is as irrelevant to man as we are irrelevant to ants.
To my knowledge Man is the only one who can recognize the notion of God.
It is not God's fault if we have grossly overblown what He is.
The first God was a man and the last should be as well. He speaks human.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Blue Jay, posted 11-08-2008 3:39 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Blue Jay, posted 11-08-2008 5:03 PM Greatest I am has replied

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