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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Remedial Evolution: seekingfirstthekingdom and RAZD | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
Wow I'm in. RAZD before we start can we firstly agree that you ask no one else to join in on our discussion? And secondly, tell me a little bit about yourself and your experience. I'll do the same. And thirdly, after we have exchanged a bit of info about each other would you do me the favour of attempting to rebut your first 12 posts. I see you have taken some time to educate me, would you let me at least give my view. You can rubbish it after I've finished. Cheers.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fluffed up the formatting.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:Ideas concepts and reasoning that someone promotes tend to be products of the environment that the person was raised in or works in.A bit of background about each other also humanises the debate. I was thinking about this and decided to tell a little of my background .I was raised in a small rural town,in a country known as the worlds biggest farm,my father and mother were both animal lovers and my father was also an obsessive organic vegetable grower. We grew up over time with 2 dogs,5 cats,8 chickens,8 rabbits,3 budgies,and perhaps over 100 tropical fish and 10 goldfish.We lived within 5 mins of a river that held wild fish that we would catch and attempt to domesticate,usually ending up in dead fish.We would try to domesticate the wild birds that surrounded our property.It usually ended up in dead birds. Ive worked in horticulture,agriculture and now in forestry.Im not a microbiologist but have had hands on experience with animals.Curiously im not an animal lover and am quite detached.To me they are generally nice to eat.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:Ill clarify.My understanding of evolution is that desirable traits are promoted down thru generations until the organism looks nothing like its ancestors.It even means according to you that the organism could even change kinds.I agree with aspects of evolution that of course there is a certain amount of natural selection and variety.I dont believe this means that kinds can change into other kinds.There seems to be genetic boundaries that of course evolutionary scientists attempt to blur. quote:But not to the extent you and your kind claim it to be.You raised an alarm in my head when i asked where in the natural world could you point out the type of evolution that you promote.You immediately pointed to a textbook instead of an example in your mind.Which should of come easily to you after your countless hours here.You could quite easily point to some tenuous examples in the fossil record.But to point to an artists impression doesnt sit easily with me.Heck you could of just said we are all transitional....without any proof of course. quote:Darwin observed animals and saw tremendous variety.He never saw reptiles turning into birds.Thats something yall made up to suit the godless philosophy you promote. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:Hmm.Im searching for an appropriate net owning comeback,but i got bored. quote:Semantics.Please no more.After looking over the length of your posts and your habit of repeating yourself,im wondering if my approach might be the more economical one.After all waste not,want not. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:You made quite an error here.You misrepresented what i said.Thats all i have to say. quote:Now im interested.What evidence do you have of this apart from your own personal take on it.Free thinking is fine and dandy.But without a basis,i can just dismiss. quote:lol we cant even agree on evolution.Slow down a tad sport.The rest isnt on topic and you havent factored in humans freewill into the equation.I want to focus on the chart from now on if i may?Thanks for your time.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
im impressed.time actually out seeing how nature works is always a plus obviously.
Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:still stand by my comments that the overwhelming evidence in the fossil record points to kinds staying within genetic boundaries instituted by our creator in genesis.even the turtles with no shells that you posted as "proof" would need many transitional forms in order to show progression from no shell to fully shelled.this isnt apparent.if there was, no doubt evolutionists would make sure we knew about it.that type of turtle can be easily explained away as another variety that became extinct.and my caps lock has decided to not work.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:apology accepted quote:fair enough.i was harsh to word it the way i did. quote:correction.morons will believe anything.im quite happy to believe science until it comes into conflict with the bible.this is where we differ.you hold science as the ultimate authority ,i do not despite all the good(and bad) its done for mankind.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:mammal.amphibian.bird.reptile. the genetic boundary is obvious. quote:lol?you are misrepresenting my position.read again what ive said.the extent of what you are claiming is the issue that i have. the proof that you have of kinds changing from one to another are tenuous "links" in the fossil record.the natural world shows no crossover.except the coelcacanth.right? once again you are making assertions that we are transitional.ill ask you how much ape like material was found in egyptian pharoahs who were buried some 3000 odd years ago?of course even a tiny amount would strongly support the theory we are transitional.they were very well preserved and i understand 3000 years is only a tiny amount of time compared to the many tens of thousands of years you claim humankind to have existed.but surely it would show something. quote:no evidence of reptile to bird.its still a bird. quote:you ve posted hoaxes on that page?im not sure how that supports your position?please pick a specific one that you feel supports the theory the most. quote:i will have a read.are you picking this case as the strongest for changes in kind? can you clarify please that you say there has been no transition from reptile to bird?and ill will be back in a few weeks.i will come back into town and have a read up on foraminfera evolution.plus try to expand on habilis.its hard finding peer reviewed material that supports my assertion its a chimp.i might have to concede.however look at its size(3.5 feet) the cranial capacity,the puny amount of fossils uncovered and the possibilty that a chimp whoops i mean handyman that small could take down anything decently sized.where im going has no internet access but ill be back.take care. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
hi razd i hope things are good with you.we have come into town somewhat earlier than expected due to an unforseen occurence so im here for an evening before going out again.now i feel i must reemphasise my problems with the theory with evolution and remind you i believe in the account of genesis.
this tends to render most of your examples that you have provided rather moot.i have a problem with. .1.simple lifeforms like bacteria being able to become superior lifeforms.2.reptiles being able to become mammals,especially reptiles becoming birds. .3.habilis being a link in mans ancestry. the example you provided in this post doesnt actually address my concerns.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:never heard of fish that can survive outside of water for periods of time?also show me in clear fossil form how this representative of your transitional beliefs evolved from fish to land if thats what you are getting at? quote:you seem to know a lot more about this "transitional" creature than scientists who have studied it and have decided to put it on a seperate branch rather than a direct ancestor between reptile and bird.also in some quarters its been regarded with suspicion.further study will provide the answers someday.but to promote it as a direct ancestor is untrue. quote:cold blooded probably reptilian.warm blooded probably mammal.i have issues with evolutionary artistry and creative license.lets see some actual fossils please.and without step by step fossil links to prove this is a link,it becomes just another variety.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:i find the 95% figure misleading .to me theres a huge difference between chimps and man.care to disagree with that statement?you ignored my example of evidence of young male pharoahs 3000 odd years old that show no sign of being more primitive.dna similarities are due to being designed to cohabit. quote:interesting strategy.you are using chimp behaviour to justify that habilis isnt a chimp.chimps use stone tools as well according to jane goodall. quote:except you would need a lot of 3.5 foot high small brained chimps to take anything down.how many fossils of handyman have been found in the area again?
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
im going to research this.anymore proof apart from a chart that what you say here:
quote:is actually true or you just defending a belief system?i see similarities in this example and to me its the strongest one you have provided.dont take it personally razd im in no way attacking you. and its unlike talking to fanatical atheists to whom talking about this type of topic is akin to entering a mosque wearing a shirt of mohammed eating a pork chop.i can see why a deist is a deist.and in some ways i believe god has left us to run the world the way we want.start another thread coyote.thanks. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given. Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:whats this got to do with what i specifically asked for regarding reptile to mammal?quite clearly the 1st example has nothing to do with what im debating.please stay on point.secondly give me time to research your claims regarding how closely related the shark and orca actually are.its so glaringly obvious to me there are barriers inbetween reptiles and mammals.surely you must know this. quote:not to the extent you are claiming.the reality is you are taking tenuous examples,ignoring the obvious and attempting to put pieces where they dont fit.theres nothing in the natural world that backs you up.nothing.
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seekingfirstthekingdom Member (Idle past 5572 days) Posts: 51 Joined: |
quote:once again you need more than 1 fossil and a few drawings to convince anyone who doesnt share your faith.closer inspection to me that could be anything.im always amused at evolutionists unseemly haste to claim what is transitional on the merest hint of evidence.give it time. quote:http://www.toarchive.org/faqs/archaeopteryx/info.html please look at conclusions. quote:unseemly haste to claim it as a transitional.i suspect that you arent open to the possibility that you are wrong.that makes this debate invalid.you cant even tell me what temperature its blood was or distinguishing features that could help identify it properly.in your eyes its transitional already.youve made a conclusion without giving it time or considering new evidence.how is that true science? Edited by seekingfirstthekingdom, : No reason given.
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