Why so friggin' confident?

Such as?

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

one word ... cognitive dissonance ...

Buzzsaw,I give it to you, at least you (and several others like Iano) attempt to provide some sort of evidence (i.e. fullfillment of prophecy, etc) to back up your faith (not that you have to according to the litteral definition of the word faith) unlike John 10:10's circular logic, blind belief and inability to provide a single coherent logical argument.At least with you it seems I am talking to a somewhat sane and rational human being who can provide some type of logical arguments even if I don't agree with many of your conclusions.I look forward to further debates with you.BTW I am not stating a logical argument here so this technically is not an ad hominum logical fallacy. It is just an observation that I needed to get off my chest.Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

Hi Buz,First, the place to take discussion issues is Report discussion problems here: No.2. How many years have you been here now?Second, there have been many threads discussing faith from the standpoint you prefer, and there will likely be many more. You've participated in many of them. But this isn't one of those threads. It's just an attempt to focus on an aspect of faith that typically receives little attention.No replies to this message, please.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Don't you mean two words, RAZD?

Still off topic. Answer the question asked of you and you could be on topic. Not so hard.

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Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.

How do you know the events of Acts 1 and 2 really did happen? Don't you accept on faith that they are accounts about actual events?--Percy

Wrercy pites: Ok, I think I see what he is saying, its just that I dont know how to proceed with that understanding of faith. How do you isolate the part of the faith that is evidential from that which, requires alittle blind faith. Dont I need the structural facts and verifiablity about G. Washington to believe any story about him that in not so substantial? One lends crediblity to the other correct?Anywho, thanks for that clarification.D Bertot

Wow!
This topic has gone far, eh?This is just a little note on the side:I wanted to say that this site is great, you guys stay, relatively, on topic, and keep a serious tone.I know I'm fairly naive, but, you know, even noobs can take part of the fun! That said, I "don't have time" to read a holy script. I'm always "doing other stuff".Anyways, carry on guys and girls, this is great stuff; I'm starting to have a more profound understanding and respect for faith; my goal is to, while an agnostic or an atheist (I dunno what I am), I want to understand both sides of the argument, respect the entire spectrum of human beliefs and culture... That's my formula for peace.Yeah!

hence the cognitive dissonance.

Good question, let's see if I can answer it.Let's consider the belief that if you lead a good life you will go to heaven. Do you think there is evidence for this belief? If not, then that's the kind of faith this thread is about.Where most previous threads concerning faith have become entangled and bogged down with arguments about evidence is the belief that those parts of the Bible that have corroborating real-world evidence lend support to those that don't. For example, the Bible says that Jesus upset the tables of the money lenders at the temple, and it is argued that the fact that the temple is real is evidence that the story is true. For another example, the Bible says that Pharaoh and his army were destroyed when the waters closed on them while they were crossing the Nile, and it is argued that the discovery of chariot wheels at the bottom of the Nile is evidence that the story is true. Or for another example, the Bible contains many prophecies, and it is argued that the prophecies have come true and that that is evidence that the Bible taken as a whole is true. This thread is trying to avoid these types of discussions that have already been done over and over again.--Percy

Because if they didn't happen then they wouldn't be in the Bible!Most of these guys don't recognise circular reasoning Percy.

Edited by Larni, : correcting some bazaar doubling of text.

Percy writes:Yeeeees. So the answer is not NO, now what? Ok. Now what?D BertotEdited by Bertot, : No reason given.

Brian writes:Would that be, the asking us to ignore the collective evidence overall to expalin certain details in the scriptures that dont have complete supporting evidence. If a certain thing is attributed to George Washington, yet there is not overall conclusive evidence for that specifc incident or detail, should I believe he is and was not a real person or actually President? Is this the type of circular reasoning you are advocating?Edited by Bertot, : No reason given.