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Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Scientific vs Creationist Frauds and Hoaxes | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
On the subject of dating, should we nominate Snelling for presenting RC dating articles while wearing his geologist hat, and knocking the science while hunkering down with his creo buddies?
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
True, Ned, but seeing that creationists with media access made a fuss about the discovery of the ossuary (ossuaries?)along the lines of it validating Jesus and the Bible, I think it qualifies for a fraud. Wasn`t it archaeologists who exposed the dodgy inscription, leading to the arrest of the forger? All that is true, but being fooled (even when you want to be) doesn't make you a liar. Continuing to be "fooled" after the hoax is exposed is starting to be dishonest though.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Regarding the ossuary, the case against the dealers appears to be falling apart (Ossuary hoax case may collapse):
October 30, 2008 - The high-profile trial of two Israeli antiquities experts accused of faking a burial box containing the remains of Jesus' brother and other priceless artifacts faced a humiliating collapse Wednesday after a Jerusalem judge advised the prosecution to consider dropping the proceedings after more than three years in court. "After all the evidence we have heard, including the testimony of the prime defendant, is the picture still the same as the one you had when he was charged?" District Court Judge Aharon Farkash pointedly asked public prosecutor, Adi Damti. "Not every case ends in the way you think it will when it starts. Maybe we can save ourselves the rest." ... But under cross-examination by defense attorneys, many experts recanted some of their findings. Judge Farkash's comments, which were excluded from trial transcripts but said in open court, came after more than 80 witnesses and 10,000 pages of testimony including evidence and cross-examination of Golan and leading archaeologists and scientists from around the world. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hey fallacycop
A lie requires knowledge (of the fact that you are uttering a falsehoods) and intent (to deceive). This, of course, lets off all the deluded and ignorant creationists that think they are passing on the truth and don't know the facts or the reality. It comes down to the Dawkins Dilemma: anyone who doesn't understand is either to stupid, ignorant, malicious, or insane, ... to which I add deluded. The fraud and hoax and lies issue really lies in the area of malicious: intentionally promoting false information in order to mislead and delude the gullible wanna-believers, and make money fame etc in the process. The people who are deluded and mislead, and who then regurgitate the fraud\hoax\lies, are really only guilty of not checking the facts or not knowing how to check the facts against reality. Take "someonewhocares", who came to this forum full of pride in having put together a website for the ->>TRUTH<<-, and who had a number of falsehoods included in his essay, including Lucy's Knee, and issues with the age of the earth. He has made some very minor "corrections" to his essay since visiting here (see what he did with Lucy's Knee), but they are not significant when you see he still includes Piltdown Man, and erroneous information on the upright posture of australopithicus. For an essay that pretends to be highly concerned with the ->>TRUTH<<-, it includes a number of easy to spot falsehoods. This kid is not stupid, nor ignorant, he doesn't appear to be malicious, but he is curiously unable to ascertain the truth of some things, because of confirmation bias, cognitive dissonance, and delusion: he thinks he is right, and that eventually the evidence will back him up. He, rather obviously, has only one test for ->>TRUTH<<-, and that is his belief. To the extent that he knowingly and intentionally includes information in his essay, without knowing\understanding that it is false, means it is a fraud, full of falsehoods. This is typical of most creationist sites that just regurgitate false information: they believe it is true (or will be). Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Gulp, Rrhain, if the case is dropped, will this mean that the ossuary is really, really the resting place of James? Hallelujah, this proves Jesus (or at least James) really, really existed.
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4020 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Hi, Razd, another reason why I`m in favour of posterior lobotomies. Obviously, frontals aren`t working.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
I think the ossuary could take over this more general thread.
Rather than discuss it here please raise a new topic.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
See Jesus Tomb Found
Enjoy.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Nighttrain responds to me:
quote: Personally? I don't think questions of archaeological authenticity are answered in court. I think they are answered by archaeological scrutiny. That's how all the various hoaxes have ever been discovered. Why did it take Piltdown man so long to be shown to be a fraud? Because it wasn't allowed to be examined. The only way to find hoaxes and uncover frauds is to open up the results to review. Look what happened with "cold fusion." Lots of claims, but the plans for the apparatus were held back, kept only partial, etc., etc. As a result, nobody could ever reproduce the results and, sure enough, it was fraud. The hoax from China regarding early bird fossils was found to be a hoax because the evidence was opened up to scrutiny. Note, not legal scrutiny but scientific scrutiny. Courts are not designed to find scientific results for they aren't equipped to do so. When the judge goes back to consider the case or the jury goes out to deliberate, it isn't like they're going to be performing their own tests upon things. Instead, they request "expert opinion" to inform them and make a judgement based upon how good they think those opinions are. Edited by Rrhain, : Trying to get back to topic Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
See A Creation Website For Children
This link was proudly provided by the author:
garbage in garbage out website Setting up a site specifically to feed false information to children is pretty despicable in my opinion. To be proud of it, is just evidence of delusion. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : chain Edited by RAZD, : ... Edited by RAZD, : e by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • • |
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
For Doubletime - to see if he can add any new ones.
Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Another creationist hoaxster to add to the list:
For Doubletime, I just checked on another of your pet hoaxes:
Along with the new guinnea man that was said to be one of our ancestors that lived today but later on turn out to belong to a modern race. ( Another HOAX) I did a google on "new guinea man fossil" and once again there were few hits that were relevant: Fossil Hominids: Big Daddy?
quote: So there you are: this is a hoax hoax - it never was misrepresented by science, but is a creationist fabrication from head to toe. And not just any creationist fabrication but a Jack Chick fabrication ... From Catholic AnswersCatholic Answers quote: Notice that this is not an "evolutionist" response to the quackery of Jack Chick, but it comes from the Catholic Church. Jack Chick is a hoax, anything he says is most likely either a total fabrication, an outright lie, or an absurd falsehood. His "new guinea man" is but one example of his false hoaxes. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This is contributed by wirrkalaj in Message 73 on 101 evidences for a young age...
The 'stones of Ica'
CH710.1: Dinosaurs on Ica stones
quote: An admitted fraud, which in science would be sufficient evidence to discard them as evidence of anything, just as Piltdown man was discarded when scientists demonstrated that it was a fraud. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3454 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this hoax that scientists perpetuated on Christians (quite effectively, I might add.)
http://englishatheist.org/indexc.shtml This is about the missing day and hours mentioned in the OT.
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3454 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Yes, there is some argument that Christians perpetuated it on themselves.
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