In conclusion, I will admit to being Conservative and advocating Conservative values. For the skull scratchers out there, this is my definition of Conservative.
Or adhering to choice christian/traditional values and morality. Obviously, I consider these values "normal". The normality of said principle is that which contains elemental nostalgia/comforts for relational individual (I.E. mum's and pop's). The most important thing is to conserve and advocate christian, American culture and traditions.
On the other hand, non relational cultural aspects and those that advocate "change" and other attacks on the values of such a culture, minding values of said culture are not limited to sex, ethnicity, age, disability, veteran status or favorite foods, is contemptible and dissuasive. Values too differing from the traditional are not nostalgic and relational, therefore "not normal", in accordance with relational standing with said culture. The bearing title of withstanding cultural values is to be 'Liberal'. As follows;
So, for conservatives, being too wayward from values and traditions of said culture, is Liberal practice, not regulating to conservative values. As well for Liberals, Conservative practice is to differ from Liberal mentality, thanks.
Buz, I think you really need to study some basic principles of the enlightenment that led to the founding of the USA.
If one person is not allowed to speak freely simply because a majority of others do not like what they have to say, then ultimately no one has free speech.
If one person is not allowed to worship freely because a majority of others do not agree with their religion, then ultimately no one has freedom of religion.
If one person is denied legal representation and is imprisoned without trial, then ultimately no one has the freedom to be represented and anyone can be imprisoned without trial.
Are you, as a conservative within your definition of what that means, an opponent of the Constitution of the United States of America?
There is a word to describe an opponent of the Constitution of the United States of America who still lives in this nation and benefits from its laws.
Hint.
It was used during the Civil War.
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
I presume that the two adjacent messages of yours are connected, Buzsaw. I will therefore consider myself to be responding to both. According to Amnesty International 60-90% of the gitmo population was inncent of any crime. They were merely in the wrong place, at the wrong time. The very existence of the prison is an affront to law and common decency. As to your fear-mongering, that is typical of someone who wants blind emotion, not reason, to prevail.
That news report based on a comment made on the internet. A comment which has not been confirmed.
Furthermore, no one is claiming he has anything to do with Bin laden, the claim is he has something to do with a Yemen "branch" of Al-Qaeda.
What does Al-Shihri, the man in question say about this? From the article:
Fox writes:
Al-Shihri, however, said he traveled to Iran to buy carpets for his store in Riyadh. He said he felt Osama bin Laden had no business representing Islam, denied any links to terrorism and expressed interest in rejoining his family in Saudi Arabia.
In conclusion, I will admit to being Conservative and advocating Conservative values. For the skull scratchers out there, this is my definition of Conservative.
quote:Main Entry: con·ser·va·tive 1: preservative 2 a: of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized: of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism: as (1): of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2): progressive conservative 3 a: tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions: traditional b: marked by moderation or caution c: marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners 4: of, relating to, or practicing Conservative Judaism
I will assume you mean conservative(3a) and conservative(2a), rather than the oxymoronic "progressive conservative" or the idiotic "neo-conservative" ... exemplified by our idiotic past (thank god its over) president.
The bearing title of withstanding cultural values is to be 'Liberal'. As follows;
For parallel consistency I'll assume you mean liberal(5) and liberal(6a).
Note that liberal does not need to be modified to be "progressive" and that by this definition a "progressive conservative" or a "neo-conservative" is really a liberal that is scared to use the term (and certainly one cannot accuse the Botch misAdministration of being fiscally conservative).
Based on these definitions, I will also note that the Founding Fathers of this country were liberals. They broke with the traditional, conservative, authoritarian governing of the King of England, while their opponents, the Tories, were the conservatives.
Furthermore, I'll note that by these definitions the Constitution of the United States of America is a liberal doctrine: it is "broad-minded; especially: not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms" and is based on ideals of freedom, equality, truth, justice and a form of government designed to secure these objectives.
Or adhering to choice christian/traditional values and morality.... The most important thing is to conserve and advocate christian, American culture and traditions.
It is only important to conservatives, therefore it cannot be "most important" ...
You are also conflating conserve with conservative. It is a liberal American cultural policy to conserve large tracts of land for future generations. But that is not what you mean by conservative.
Next the question is which values come first, traditional Christian values (we'll leave the discussion of "morality" for later) or the liberal American values of freedom, equality, justice and a form of government designed to secure these objectives. Are you a patriot of Christian values and a traitor to American values or are you a patriot of American values and a traitor to Christian values when it comes down to making a choice.
Obviously, I consider these values "normal".
Obviously. But then, everyone considers their values "normal" even convicted felons. The question of what is "normal" within a society is often a question of what is average (the "normal distribution") in that society, and the average American value is not conservative christian. Conservative Christians are a minority in the minority party. When you look at the statistics and talk to the conservative christians you find out that somewhere around 80% of american christians are liberal in their views on religion and solidly in favor of the liberal values of freedom, equality, truth, justice and a form of government designed to secure these objectives. It is rather humorous to watch conservative christians claim that this is a christian nation because 70 to 80% of americans are christian, and then tell liberal christians that they are not true christians because they don't believe the bible is literal history.
Another way to look at "normal" is with the definition used in psychology, and maintaining delusionary beliefs is not "normal"
The belief that the earth is young (6000 years was it?) is not rational when it is contradicted by mountains of evidence.
The normality of said principle is that which contains elemental nostalgia/comforts for relational individual (I.E. mum's and pop's).
Now you are equivocating on the word "normal" - it is normal for all people to have parents. It is not normal for all parents to provide a comforting environment for children, and a comforting environment for children has nothing to do with liberal or conservative values of the family.
On the other hand, non relational cultural aspects and those that advocate "change" and other attacks on the values of such a culture, minding values of said culture are not limited to sex, ethnicity, age, disability, veteran status or favorite foods, is contemptible and dissuasive.
Except that they are based on the now traditional American values of freedom, equality, truth, justice and a form of government designed to secure these objectives established by the liberal Founding Fathers.
If you think that traditional conservative Christian values trump these American values then you are not patriotic to those American values.
So, for conservatives, being too wayward from values and traditions of said culture, is Liberal practice, not regulating to conservative values. As well for Liberals, Conservative practice is to differ from Liberal mentality, thanks.
Yes, liberals move forward the ideals of the Founding Fathers and the Constitution of the United States to form of government designed to secure these objective of freedom, equality, truth, justice for all.
OBAMA = BAD
You are free to have your opinion, thanks to the liberal doctrine of the Constitution of the United States.
I am also free to have my opinion be diametrically opposed to it because of the same liberal doctrine of the Constitution of the United States.
So on this day, I am proud of the American values embedded in the Constitution of the United States, I am proud to hold these values as sacrosanct, I am proud to see a president hold these American values sacrosanct.
Obama has already done more good in the world than Shrubbia could scrape together in his last (may the saints preserve us) address from 8 years of the Botch misAdministration.
And that makes me proud to have supported his election.
You've been arrested by a foreign power and shipped to a detention facility on an thousands of miles away from your homeland. You are tortured from time to time for information that you may or may not know.
1. Your points would be applicable to ordinary citizens, Taz. "You've been...." does not apply here. These are stealth warriors in a declared War On Terror, who do not identify themselves as soldiers in the war, but have so little regard for human life, including their own that they will go to any length, including their own death to kill as many other people as possible. They choose to be stealth.....let them be tried by stealth, if that's what it takes to avoid sending them back into society to kill, kill, kill free minded people like Americans.
2. Water boarding is not torture. It causes no long lasting ill effects and is not life threatening. These people are the people who would torture, if given the opportunity......real torture, like gouging out eyes, cutting off limbs, cutting out the tongue, crucifixion, and what ever else one can imagine, all of which either permanently maims or kills.
3. In wartime, America has always treated criminals who are not citizens and who have no American Constitutional rights, in such a manner that the war can be won, albeit, short of real torture, all the while our own have been consistently tortured by foreign powers. Our track record is such that the discomfort our prisoners are subjected to is not unduly oppressive. Gitmo is no exception.
4. In war you do what you must do to survive and win.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
quote:4. In war you do what you must do to survive and win.
Quite amusing to watch all the fair weather christians abandon the teachings of Christ when it's not expedient to follow them. Didn't he say something about turning the other cheek?
Oh, don't bother replying. We all know you have some stock way to weasel out of the very words that Christ himself spoke.
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
What does Al-Shihri, the man in question say about this? From the article
Devout Muslim Jehadists fighting for their god, Allah are exempt by Islamic law from telling the truth for the cause of Allah. Truth, like justice and freedom, is not an abundant commodity in the Islamic world.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
Then why have they not been charged, tried, convicted & executed?
IMO the answer to your question is that conviction would require death and to kill them would create such an outcry globally and in our own nation that Gitmo would have already been history. Gitmo was the only logical solution... hold them indefinitely, from effecting holocaustic Jehad, thereby denying them eventual American citizenship and rights.
Edited by Buzsaw, : fix quotes
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
There is rumour almost in every country i go to, that any president of the USA is chosen and supported by a sort of "illuminati"(we don't have a word for this yet in my native language). Who might be these suspects?
In Bulgaria, these are the former communists, our former KGB-style secret service that are still largely running the country. What about USA?
Quite amusing to watch all the fair weather christians abandon the teachings of Christ when it's not expedient to follow them. Didn't he say something about turning the other cheek?
Jesus also said, "render to Caesar what is Caesar's. Jesus's advice was not pertaining to nations winning wars. He knew well, the OT scriptures, relative to just wars sanctioned by his father, Jehovah.
Jesus told his desciples that there would be warfare globally until he returned to establish for his messianic kingdom in answer to questions from his desciples. See Olivet Discourses, Mark 13, Matt 24 and Luke 21.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
IMO the answer to your question is that conviction would require death and to kill them would create such an outcry globally and in our own nation that Gitmo would have already been history. Gitmo was the only logical solution... hold them indefinitely, from effecting holocaustic Jehad, thereby denying them eventual American citizenship and rights.
So you keep on pulling it out your ass.
So you just assume they are all guilty though they have not had a fair trial? And because they are guilty, they cannot have a fair trial because we would have to kill when we find them guilty..
That's some serious bullshit right there Buz. If it werent for the rude comments you would get i would throw that quote up on FSTDT
Please, quote me chapter and verse where Jesus says, "Go thee out and kick thee some pagan ass," or words to that effect.
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
There is rumour almost in every country i go to, that any president of the USA is chosen and supported by a sort of "illuminati"(we don't have a word for this yet in my native language). Who might be these suspects?
This will provide you with two letter from George Washington to G.W. Snyder.
A quote:
George Washington writes:
"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am.
The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of seperation)."
This was written 25 years after Adam Weishaupt in Bavaria founded Illuminati and 15 years after it had been made illegal by the ruler of Bavaria, Karl Theodor.
[edit]They are having a discussion over at JREF on this very topic.
[Disclaimer]I do not believe there is a modern illuminati ruling the world. Greed rules the world. Still interesting though.
Even George Washington knew.
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