Rationalising The Irrational - Hardcore Theists Apply Within

Hi Straggler. Sorry for my tardiness in replying in our other discussion. I'll do a drive-by on this if you don't mind. Hope it helps kickstart it for you- Honestly?Firstly there was the firm belief that I was rotten (effectively, in salvation terms, I believed God's statement about me - even if I didn't believe in God at that point). Once the criterion of salvation was met, once the barrier was ripped down between me and God, the rest followed. God turned up and I believed he existed, that Christ is my saviour, that the Bible is his word etc.Effortlesss.- Neither really. My believing that I was rotten arose out of;a) my being rottenb) my being convinced of that factMy belief as to Gods existance arose out of God turning up - no confirmation was necessary outside that. That said, there were the initial mindblowing realisations that flowed from knowing God actually exists. For example; the reason why the world is the way it is isn't about capitalism vs. socialism, it's not about Catholic vs. Protestant. Nor is it about a school bully bullying because of a poor teacher/pupil ratio. It's about all of these things on the surface but the core reason is because of sin. The world is the way it is because it couldn't be any different given that it's populated by sinners.Only a week ago I heard a talk show host indignantly query whether Israel/Gaza really could be contenanced in the "21st century". He was implying that man has risen above such savagery and that such things should be impossible. I didn't see any problem at all. The world is working precisely as expected.My faith isn't increased or diminished by empirical evidence posited to support or detract from his existing. It's enjoyable to make connections but it's not at all essential.- See above. Knowing God is means you see everything through those spectacles. There is empirical evidence everywhere (in the sense that God's hand is to be seen working). But "proving" it against a view looking through a different set of spectacles? Nigh on pointless - given that the other view doesn't suppose itself to be looking through heavily tinted spectacles in the first place.- As above. Empirical evidence is a side issue to belief to my mind - although I could see why folk would attempt to deliver an apologetic to unbelievers based on such foundations. If faith disappeared (faith being described as evidence of a non-empirical nature) then of course I'd have a hard time believing. That's why David prayed Lord don't take your spirit from me. If he did then we would return to the position that you currently occupy. It would be far worse coming down of such a high than never having had that high in the first place. I've done drugs - I know...- I wouldn't frame it that way - as you know. Belief, if stemming from Gods actions us-ward would be anything but subjective. It'd be as objective as the nose in front of your face - even if viewed by folk from slightly different angles.- Remember to look me up if ever the light goes on for you. I'd be thrilled to hear of it.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

I can't prove it either Phat. It's just that for reasons - which are unlikely to have anything to do with my meriting it - I seem to have a higher degree of confidence than you. It's probably due to the fact that all the other options presented appear to be way too Alice-in-Wonderland to even begin to countenance.I'm a mechanical engineer btw - perhaps it's the analytical-approach-to-everything that assists me as it does. I'm sure your doing fine in whatever skin you're wearing.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Whilst admiring your tendency to reflect unto summation (it is certainly helpful) I do wonder whether you're not seeing the wood for the trees.- I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill but "consistancy" might warrant further investigation. How does consistancy arise from the 4 corners of the globe, amongst a group unconnected socio-politically, intellectually, economically, culturally..etc.This was the thing that caused me to wonder when I was in-between times. I sat in a room talking the Bible with housewives, salesmen, big businessmen, criminals, starlets, drug addicts...and the like. As disparate (according to the worldy measure of such things) a bunch as one could hope for. Yet we all (came to ) realise that we stood on the same ground before God. Lets call "external, physical, empirical, scientific evidence" the box. And lets call thinking outside the above:"thinking outside the box"The Bible says that (lost) man is without excuse. And that includes you Struggler. You're faced with folks whose intellect cannot be in doubt. Their ability to intellectually weigh and ponder and consider and conclude far outweighs your ability. And yet they believe.Unless you find a way to resolve this glaring problem ...you have a problem.