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Author | Topic: I Am Not An Atheist! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi oni,
onifre writes: You honestly believe this...? Sure I do.
onifre writes: You think the devil is deceiving people be manipulating science, picking certain theories and channeling through specific scientist that bring the theories to the mainstream...? All scientist? NO Science is a great and necessary work that God gave man the knowledge and ability to do. But the devil will use anything and everything to reach his goal. He cares nothing about anything but his selfish desires. He will deceive anybody that will let him. He will then use them for his advantage. The same goes for the preachers and churches mentioned below. I also believe that the devil is deceiving people by manipulating religion, picking certain doctrines and channeling false teachings through different false preachers and churches. It has nothing to do with atheist, agnostic or religious. It has to do with a war between good and evil. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: I said that, based on your own statements, the devil seeks for us to deny the need for salvation.According to you he attempts to do this through (amongst other things) theories like BB and evolution. Therefore these theories support a position which denies a need for salvation. Therefore those who advocate such theories have been deceived by the devil into advocating a position that denies the need for salvation. Actually the proponents of the theories are proposing God does not exist and if He does we don't need him. What happened to all the other things I said about the devil is trying to accomplish his goal.
ICANT writes: The devil does not care if you believe in God. The devil does not care if you are religious in fact he encourages it. The devil does not care if you join a church and get involved in all the church activities. But there are two things the devil does not want you to do. 1) Read a good Bible. (because faith cometh by hearing the word). 2) He does not want man to see his need of salvation to the point he puts the eternal destiny of his spirit in Gods hands. The devil will do everything in his power to keep this from happening and if he fails he will spend the rest of that person's life trying to convince them not to serve the Lord as master but to serve him. You sum up using part of my statement and then ask the following question.
Straggler writes: Can you see why claiming something is denying the need for salvation, and thus anti-Christian, but not atheistic is a pretty subtle distinction in a predominantly Christian culture? Why is denying the need for salvation anti-Christian? Why is the a subtle distinction in a predominantly Christian culture? Especially when it is not a predominantly Christian culture. It is a predominantly religious culture. I think you need to start a thread where we can continue this conversation without being so far off topic. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Actually the proponents of the theories are proposing God does not exist and if He does we don't need him. Which takes us all the way back to where we started before you brought the devil or salvation into the equation back in Message 69 Can you see why your claim that the theories in question suggest that "God does not exist and if He does we don't need him" whilst also claiming that they are not atheistic is a pretty subtle distinction?
Why is denying the need for salvation anti-Christian? Is it possible to be a Christian and not seek salvation through Jesus Christ? I thought that was kinda the point of the whole deal?
Why is the a subtle distinction in a predominantly Christian culture? In a predominantly Christian culture denying the Christian God without advocating a different God is obviously going to be viewed as atheism.
I think you need to start a thread where we can continue this conversation without being so far off topic. Regardimg these last few comments you may well be right.
Actually the proponents of the theories are proposing God does not exist and if He does we don't need him. But your comment here is very much on topic.Why do creationists often seem to confuse evolutionists and atheists? Well according to you it is because the theory of evolution is a work of deceit by the devil designed to convince us that "God does not exist and if He does we don't need him" This very much answers Percy's OP. It seems that in terms of opinion, even if not action, you are exactly the sort of creationist he is talking about. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2976 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Hi ICANT,
Sure I do. Thats sad.
ICANT writes: onifre writes:
You think the devil is deceiving people be manipulating science, picking certain theories and channeling through specific scientist that bring the theories to the mainstream...? All scientist? NO I didn't say all scientist,
onifre writes: through specific scientist that bring the theories to the mainstream Let be be more specific: Do you believe the devil selects specific scientist to advance certain fields of science (i.e. Darwin with evolution)...? Or does he wait till he sees a theory he can use then exploits it...? I'm just wondering why the devil will wait till Darwin had a break through to then jump onboard the evolution deception train...? Or am I confused, did the devil make Darwin see the evidence...? Because honestly, it just seems like this is an after thought of yours because you feel there is a link between certain theories and the removal of God, so you equate it to the work of the devil. Who else could it be, right...? However: If Straggler would have asked you if people who believe that the Earth revolves around the Sun where God denying or being deceived by the devil, you would have said no. Yet 500 years ago people would have said yes, it is God denying and you are being deceived by the devil if you believe the Earth revolves around the Sun. In fact Galileo was convicted of heresy for just that. So you seem to be using the same ignorant argument used to convict people 500 years ago. Funny, in another thread you wrote that "things change with time, there is no denying that", yet the reasoning of religious people when reviewing scientific evidence has stayed the same throughout time. As ignorant and pitiful as always. Just as they did you now do the same. You feel that accepting these theories removes God from the equation and as such the devil is using these theories to deceive man. Yet, they, like you, were absolutely wrong. In fact, they have been wrong on every issue concerning the devil and his avenues of deception, this is just your new and improved 21st century argument. 500 years ago it was the Earth revolving around the Sun, today it's evolution and the BB, tomorrow it will be some other shitty argument that is borne of ignorance. And, there will be an ICANT in the future, as there is now, as there was 500 years ago, professing that the devil is using modern science to deceive mankind and lure us away from salvation. So, to fix it, you must believe in another invisible man that dwells in the unknown and trust in authors who lived thousands of years ago. And, in the future, as there is now, as there was 500 years ago, hopefully in greater numbers, will sit the rational people who understand science saying "What are you guys fucking crazy?". "I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks "I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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If Straggler would have asked you if people who believe that .............. Well I wish I had asked that now. Good point. Thankyou for making it for me.
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iano Member (Idle past 1966 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I take your point. The question shouldn't centre around how old you say the earth is. Or what you're not. It should centre around who you say Jesus Christ is.
So, who do you, Percy, say Jesus Christ is? Your Lord and saviour? Or an equivocation around same. Your answer to me need not be your final answer.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.7 |
The question shouldn't centre around how old you say the earth is. Or what you're not. It should centre around who you say Jesus Christ is.
Why would it center around that? Who Percy regards jesus to be has nothing to do with whether or not he is an atheist or an agnostic. Christians aren't the only non-athiests out there. The topic of the OP is: Why do creationists automatically classify their opponents as atheists? soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Percy Member Posts: 22489 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
iano writes: So, who do you, Percy, say Jesus Christ is? Your Lord and saviour? Or an equivocation around same. You responded to Message 1, so perhaps you hadn't read the rest of the thread? Anyway, later in the thread I make clear I'm a deist. Although I'm not a Christian and do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, I do believe in a higher purpose. But this thread is about atheism, so why do you ask about a very specific religious belief? It wouldn't make sense to consider anyone who doesn't share your religious beliefs to be an atheist, so I can't see why you're asking. --Percy
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi oni,
onifre writes: Just as they did you now do the same. You feel that accepting these theories removes God from the equation and as such the devil is using these theories to deceive man. Well no I don't think atheist, agnostic, or religious people as well as theories remove God from anything. God exists. The devil started out using a piece of beautiful fruit. He has used the church to deceive more people than the BB or ToE. But as far as the earth revolving around the sun the last time I checked it took the earth 365.26 days to make that revolution. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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anglagard Member (Idle past 862 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
ICANT writes: The devil started out using a piece of beautiful fruit. He has used the church to deceive more people than the BB or ToE. From this and previous posts you sure seem to claim to know any purported 'devil' quite well. After all you seem to claim to know, above and beyond most us mere mortals, exactly what this 'devil' wants from people, exactly which scientific theories are promoted by this 'devil,' and even who and under what circumstances anyone (yourself excepted, of course) is subject to the actions and will of your purported 'devil.' For someone who claims an allegiance to Christianity, you sure have what seems to me quite the obsession. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Shield Member (Idle past 2887 days) Posts: 482 Joined: |
ICANT writes: But as far as the earth revolving around the sun the last time I checked it took the earth 365.26 days to make that revolution. Which has NOTHING to do with what Onifre asked you.You could not have answered that question in a more silly way. Why won't you answer his question?
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: |
He has used the church to deceive more people than the BB or ToE. You suggest that the devil has many, many tricks up his sleeve to deceive people. It appears you are left with no way of knowing that he isn't deceiving you. Maybe he wrote the Bible even.
But as far as the earth revolving around the sun the last time I checked it took the earth 365.26 days to make that revolution. That statement of yours is contracting the Bible, if the Devil didn't write it then maybe he is deceiving you (and a few others) into thinking it is true when it isn't.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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After a slightly circular and protracted discussion with ICANT it seems that we have an answer to the question implied in your OP.
Regarding scientific theories such as evolution and the Big Bang ICANT says:
ICANT writes: I view them as the devils attempt to win his war with God. From Message 71 Actually the proponents of the theories are proposing God does not exist and if He does we don't need him. From Message 77 ICANT writes: I do not believe those who accept the BB theory and ToE are brainwashed. I do believe they are deceived by the devil. From Message 68 However he also says that such theories are not explicitly atheistic in his view:
ICANT writes: I do not explicitly associate theories like BB and evolution with atheism? There are many people who believe in God and the BB theory. There are many people who believe in God and the ToE. So I would be a fool to equate BB, and Toe with atheism. From Message 68 So, according to ICANT, the theory of evolution is the work of the devil advocated by those who have been deceived by the devil and who are proposing that God is unnecessary and/or non-existent despite not actually being atheists. If this is how other creationists think then I guess it explains the confusion between 'evolutionists' and atheists that you highlight in your OP?
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Straggler writes: So, according to ICANT, the theory of evolution is the work of the devil advocated by those who have been deceived by the devil and who are proposing that God is unnecessary and/or non-existent despite not actually being atheists. For sure, Satan, arch enemy of God would promote and inspire anything which diminishes the glory, power and majestic supremacy of the creator/designer and manager of everything in the Universe as per the Biblical record. The apostle Paul, in the letter to the Romans, (1:25) soundly condemns those who regard the creature more than the creator, and who have "changed the truth of God into a lie.". BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Straggler writes: So, according to ICANT, the theory of evolution is the work of the devil advocated by those who have been deceived by the devil and who are proposing that God is unnecessary and/or non-existent despite not actually being atheists. For sure, Satan, arch enemy of God would promote and inspire anything which diminishes the glory, power and majestic supremacy of the creator/designer and manager of everything in the Universe as per the Biblical record. I know some theists (quite possibly some here at EvC) who consider the whole biblical literalist/creationsit movement to diminish "the glory, power and majestic supremacy" of God as they view Him to be. Is the biblical literalist position the work of Satan too? Go figure. Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
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