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Author Topic:   Too Many Flaws with Evolution
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3017 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 78 of 144 (499403)
02-18-2009 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Theodoric
02-18-2009 1:59 PM


You see the Theory of Evolution, is based upon facts. Your beliefs are based upon faith, no facts at all.
Please provide some evidence that evolution is a delusion.
Excuse me!!! The ToE is still based on "theory" after "theory" after "theory" of how life somehow evolved from very simple life forms which they don't know how it first got started to complex life forms and finally to man.
Show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man? Until you do so, the ToE is pure delusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2009 1:59 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Chiroptera, posted 02-18-2009 2:26 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 80 by Huntard, posted 02-18-2009 2:27 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 81 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2009 2:28 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 82 by bluegenes, posted 02-18-2009 2:31 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 144 (499404)
02-18-2009 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:13 PM


Show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man?
Me, I like the way that all living species that have been examined, including known single celled creatures, can be placed in a single phylogenic tree.
I realize that it won't convince a lot of people, but it works for me.

Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:13 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 80 of 144 (499405)
02-18-2009 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:13 PM


John 10:10 writes:
Excuse me!!! The ToE is still based on "theory" after "theory" after "theory" of how life somehow evolved from very simple life forms which they don't know how it first got started to complex life forms and finally to man.
Repeating something that is wrong does not make it true all of a sudden.
Show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man? Until you do so, the ToE is pure delusion.
I can't. Can you show me how god created everything from nothing? You can't? Then why is that true, yet evolution isn't?
Edited by Huntard, : changed last paragraph a bit, I was too hasty.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:13 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 3:02 PM Huntard has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9145
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 81 of 144 (499407)
02-18-2009 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:13 PM


oh your letting your ignorance show
Before you start arguing against something, you really should know what you are arguing against.
We really do not like equivocation here. oh I guess I better define. It is a logical fallacy.
Equivocation is the illegitimate switching of the meaning of a term during the reasoning.
You are switching the definition of Theory
In science a theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. (in other words, facts)
The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic. A law describes a single action, whereas a theory explains an entire group of related phenomena.
Source
Scientific Theory, Law, and Hypothesis Explained | Wilstar.com
There is nothing higher than a Scientific Theory to explain a group of phenomena. You can't go any higher. Theories are the big leagues.
You see how that works. I include facts and sources with my statements. Not just random statements with no basis in reality and fact.
Show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man?
Here we go with another fallacy. The tried and true always debunked and discredited creationist strawman. Where does the Theory of Evolution say this should happen. Give me one example of a believer in Evolution proposing anything like this could or should happen.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:13 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 82 of 144 (499408)
02-18-2009 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:13 PM


John writes:
Show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man? Until you do so, the ToE is pure delusion.
Fully grown men are composed of living single cells, and zygotes "evolve" into fully grown men all the time.
Do you need to be shown in a lab that volcanoes can form islands? Do you need to be shown in a lab that meteors have collided with the moon? Do you think it is impossible to discover the past from observations made in the present?
Examination of the human genome in a lab shows clearly that we descend from a common ancestor with the other apes, so as you're so keen on laboratory work, I'll assume that you accept that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:13 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:51 PM bluegenes has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3017 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 83 of 144 (499412)
02-18-2009 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Huntard
02-18-2009 2:08 PM


The origin of life is a necessary precursor for biological evolution, but understanding that evolution occurred once organisms appeared and investigating how this happens does not depend on understanding exactly how life began.[159] The current scientific consensus is that the complex biochemistry that makes up life came from simpler chemical reactions, but it is unclear how this occurred.[160] Not much is certain about the earliest developments in life, the structure of the first living things, or the identity and nature of any last universal common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.[161][162] Consequently, there is no scientific consensus on how life began, but proposals include self-replicating molecules such as RNA,[163] and the assembly of simple cells.[164]
Evolution - Wikipedia
The ToE has burried itself in a hole in the ground by ignoring how life could have first begun from inanimate matter, and relied instead on a theory of how life can somehow evolve from a simple spark of life to complex life forms and finally to man. Nowhere is God mentioned as a rational explanation of how maybe a Creator is neceaasry for life to be created from non-life matter. Instead the ToE relys on "what if" happenings that may transpire after life somehow began. From the first maybe spark of life, life somehow figured out how to evolve form simple life forms to complex life forms and finally to man, all without a Creator.
Did I miss anything in this ToE, other than it's all "proven fact" to those who are willing to stake their lives on this belief that is still a theory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Huntard, posted 02-18-2009 2:08 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Huntard, posted 02-18-2009 2:53 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 87 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2009 2:57 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3017 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 84 of 144 (499413)
02-18-2009 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by bluegenes
02-18-2009 2:31 PM


Do you need to be shown in a lab that volcanoes can form islands? Do you need to be shown in a lab that meteors have collided with the moon? Do you think it is impossible to discover the past from observations made in the present?
No I don't!!! But I do have to be shown in a lab that a single cell life form can evolve to a fully grown man before I would believe in this theory and call it fact that has been proven to a high degree of accuracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by bluegenes, posted 02-18-2009 2:31 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Huntard, posted 02-18-2009 2:54 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 92 by Parasomnium, posted 02-18-2009 5:42 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 93 by bluegenes, posted 02-18-2009 6:05 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 85 of 144 (499415)
02-18-2009 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:47 PM


John 10:10 writes:
The ToE has burried itself in a hole in the ground by ignoring how life could have first begun from inanimate matter, and relied instead on a theory of how life can somehow evolve from a simple spark of life to complex life forms and finally to man. Nowhere is God mentioned as a rational explanation of how maybe a Creator is neceaasry for life to be created from non-life matter.
John, the theory of evolution is not about how life got started, that's why it doesn't mention it.
Instead the ToE relys on "what if" happenings that may transpire after life somehow began.
No, it doesn't. Evolution has been proven, both in the lab and in the wild, no matter how many times you deny it.
From the first maybe spark of life, life somehow figured out how to evolve form simple life forms to complex life forms and finally to man, all without a Creator.
Life didn't figure anything out, it couldn;t have gone any other way. Further, you seem to imply we are the goal, we are not, so you got that wrong too. And again, it doesn't say there is no creator, stop putting things into the theory that aren't in there.
Did I miss anything in this ToE, other than it's all "proven fact" to those who are willing to stake their lives on this belief that is still a theory.
And now you misrepresent the word theory again. Do you even read what others post to you, or do you just see it as letters that mean nothing? You should know by now what a scientific theory is, stop misrepresenting it. Further, I will most certainly NOT give my life for the theory of evolution, I'm far too happy living.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:47 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 86 of 144 (499416)
02-18-2009 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:51 PM


Then why do you think that CAN happen, yet evolution can't? The evidence is the same, if not better for evolution.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:51 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 8:02 PM Huntard has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9145
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 87 of 144 (499417)
02-18-2009 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:47 PM


Do you read what was posted?
A scientific theory is an explanation for observed, verified facts. It is not a hypothesis, that is something else all together.
Also, if you bothered with trying to understand that which you condemn, you would know that the Theory of Evolution says nothing about how life started.
Consequently, there is no scientific consensus on how life began
Do I need to explain this to you? That means how life began is not part of the Theory of Evolution.
Isn't it sad when you have to rely on deceptions and misunderstanding of data in order to justify your argument.
But then again you know all this, but have no other arguments then the old fallacies that you and your ilk trot out again and again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:47 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 8:23 PM Theodoric has replied

  
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 3017 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 88 of 144 (499420)
02-18-2009 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Huntard
02-18-2009 2:27 PM


Repeating something that is wrong does not make it true all of a sudden.
Funny, that's where the ToE has evolved to today.
Can you show me how god created everything from nothing? You can't? Then why is that true, yet evolution isn't?
You admit you can't "show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man," and you ask why this isn't true? I must be missing something in this logic?
All we creationists ask for is equal consideration in the classroom as to how man came to be, rather than only being given an unproven ToE to explain how man came to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Huntard, posted 02-18-2009 2:27 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Huntard, posted 02-18-2009 3:09 PM John 10:10 has not replied
 Message 90 by CosmicChimp, posted 02-18-2009 3:15 PM John 10:10 has replied
 Message 91 by Coyote, posted 02-18-2009 4:02 PM John 10:10 has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 89 of 144 (499423)
02-18-2009 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 3:02 PM


Funny, that's where the ToE has evolved to today.
Sure, go on repeating stuff that isn't true....
You admit you can't "show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man," and you ask why this isn't true? I must be missing something in this logic?
Yep, you are. I'm not even going to bother anymore, I should've learned from earlier discussions with you, you're trapped in a certain type of reasoning, and nothing can get you out of that. I'll simply say have fun with it, and so long sir!

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 3:02 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 90 of 144 (499425)
02-18-2009 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 3:02 PM


You admit you can't "show me the evidence where man has proven in a lab that a single cell life creature can evolve into a fully grown man," and you ask why this isn't true? I must be missing something in this logic?
Could you clarify exactly what sort of evidence you would be satisfied with? Go into detail about what it is you're asking for.
{ABE}
All we creationists ask for is equal consideration in the classroom as to how man came to be, rather than only being given an unproven ToE to explain how man came to be.
Creationists will never get the chance at equal time in public schools in USA due to the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
Edited by CosmicChimp, : Added second part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 3:02 PM John 10:10 has replied

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 91 of 144 (499429)
02-18-2009 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 3:02 PM


Affirmative action needed
All we creationists ask for is equal consideration in the classroom as to how man came to be, rather than only being given an unproven ToE to explain how man came to be.
You are asking for affirmative action for your religious beliefs to be considered as science when they meet none of the requirements of science.
In fact, they are exact opposite of science, relying on unverifiable "divine" revelation (and on only one particular version of that revelation) as opposed to relying on verifiable scientific evidence.
What makes you think you should you be allowed to preach your religious beliefs in the guise of science?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 3:02 PM John 10:10 has replied

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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 92 of 144 (499457)
02-18-2009 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by John 10:10
02-18-2009 2:51 PM


John, if you've got some spare time on your hands...
John 10:10 writes:
I do have to be shown in a lab that a single cell life form can evolve to a fully grown man before I would believe in this theory and call it fact that has been proven to a high degree of accuracy.
No problem. Just come to my lab and I'll show you. Oh, I should mention that it takes a while, so maybe you could check your diary first. If you can squeeze in two or three billion years somewhere, I think we can work something out.
Seriously, John, you should know better than to ask this. If you don't bother to familiarize yourself with some basic facts about evolution - like the time span involved - why should we bother talking to you?

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 2:51 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by John 10:10, posted 02-18-2009 9:02 PM Parasomnium has replied

  
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