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Author Topic:   Which Version of the Bible is the Word of God?
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 120 of 174 (499284)
02-18-2009 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by DevilsAdvocate
02-15-2009 9:31 AM


Re: Dragons and Sea-Dogs, Oh My!
perhaps traders from asia transported these snakes years earlier the same way they used to carry other exotic animals from place to place
perhaps some of these snakes were released or escaped into the wild and they were jumping off rocky cliff faces
perhaps it wasnt these types of snakes at all but the point is that there are snakes that do this... who knows, maybe normal every day snakes can do this too

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 Message 111 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-15-2009 9:31 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 122 of 174 (499543)
02-19-2009 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by PaulK
02-18-2009 4:22 AM


RE: Which One
At the time Josephus was writing the Temple had been destroyed.
the temple was destroyed in 70CE by the romans... Josephus reports that it was completely burned to the ground and the artifacts inside were carried off by Roman soldiers as booty
so there were scrolls there before this time....these would be the scrolls that Jesus read from when he did his public readings...there is also evidence that the greek septuagaint version was in use because the Apostle Paul evidently uses this version in many of his quotes in his writings but not all.... this is evidence that more then that translation was in use at the time.
a portion of Isiah was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls written in a pre-Masoretic Hebrew script and has been dated toward the end of the second century B.C.E.
so these early scrolls were obviously in use in Jesus day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by PaulK, posted 02-18-2009 4:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by PaulK, posted 02-19-2009 6:54 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 124 of 174 (499683)
02-19-2009 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by PaulK
02-19-2009 6:54 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
So your assertion that Josephus was writing about scrolls kept at the Temple was false.
not at all
the scrolls were housed there for centuries before the place was destroyed in 70ce
PaulK writes:
Really ? Where is your evidence that Jesus ever obtained a scroll from the Temple ?
In the Jewish synagogues there was a public reading of a portion of the Law on the Sabbath and they still do this today.
It was Jesus custom to do this just as all other male jews did it.
Luke 4:16'And he came to Naz′areth, where he had been reared; and, according to his custom on the sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue, and he stood up to read. 17So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him...'
Obviously scrolls were available for public readings...otherwise they would not have had public readings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by PaulK, posted 02-19-2009 6:54 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 1:40 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 126 of 174 (499731)
02-20-2009 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by PaulK
02-20-2009 1:40 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
That doesn't mean that they were still there AFTER 70ce, when Josephus was writing.
Don't you think that the fact that the Temple was a burnt-out ruin makes it an unlikely place to keep valuable scrolls ?
i dont beleive i ever said that they were there after.
we are talking about Jesus day which was up to 33 CE... that is before 70ce
and biblical scrolls were not only kept at jerusalem, they had synagogues all over the place... i dont know what your point is

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 1:40 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 2:21 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 128 of 174 (499739)
02-20-2009 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by PaulK
02-20-2009 2:21 AM


RE: Which One
why dont you ask the jews

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 2:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 3:49 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 130 of 174 (499745)
02-20-2009 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by PaulK
02-20-2009 3:49 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
Josephus was not talking about scrolls stored at the Temple, because he was speaking of the situation as it was at the time he wrote - and the Temple had been destroyed by then (your OWN date for the time of writing is c100CE).
It is highly unlikely that Jesus read from a scroll held at the Temple - and nothing in the Bible says that he ever did.
You do understand what a historian is
you know that historians write history
here is a link, where you can read his writings
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/
I quote a scripture earlier that records that Jesus had the custom of reading aloud at the temple on the sabbath
look into some jewish sites, you'll see they still do this today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 3:49 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 4:55 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 132 of 174 (499748)
02-20-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by PaulK
02-20-2009 4:55 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
No you didn't. It had him reading aloud in a synagogue, not the Temple.
Instead of making up excuse after excuse to try to pretend you are right why don't you just make the effort to get things right in the first place ?
my apologies on that one, your right, it was at Nazareth that the scripture i quoted was in reference to
while the bible may be inerrant, i certainly am not

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 4:55 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 7:37 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 134 of 174 (499846)
02-21-2009 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by PaulK
02-20-2009 7:37 AM


RE: Which One
In Against Apion Book 1 "I SUPPOSE that by my books of the Antiquity of the Jews, most excellent Epaphroditus, have made it evident to those who peruse them, that our Jewish nation is of very great antiquity...
"For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, [as the Greeks have,] but only twenty-two books, (8) which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine; and of them five belong to Moses, which contain his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind till his death"
He is talking about the scrolls of the Hebrew scriptures located at the city where he lived, Jerusalem.
"And this is our practice not only in Judea, but wheresoever any body of men of our nation do live; and even there an exact catalogue of our priests' marriages is kept; I mean at Egypt and at Babylon, or in any other place of the rest of the habitable earth, whithersoever our priests are scattered; for they send to Jerusalem the ancient names of their parents in writing"
this shows that the jews kept records and those records were sent to jerusalem and administered by the priests
In book 6 of War of the jews he reports that Titus gave the command to 'burn and to plunder the city' and that the soldiers 'set fire to the repository of the archives ...and to the council house... '
if you want more evidence for the records & sacred writings of the jews being housed at the temple, use that link and read Josephus's writings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2009 7:37 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 3:46 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 137 of 174 (499858)
02-21-2009 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by PaulK
02-21-2009 3:46 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
He seems to be talking about the Hewbrew scriptures in general, not any specific scrolls.
what do you imagine the hebrew scriptures to be exactly?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 3:46 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:15 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 139 of 174 (499864)
02-21-2009 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by PaulK
02-21-2009 5:15 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
what makes you think that Josephus is referring to specific physical copies kept in a specific place when the quote never suggests any such thing ?
what makes you skeptical that the Jews kept their scriptures at the temple in Jerusalem?
Are you also skeptical that the synagogues in other cities had the hebrew scriptures located there?
Are you skeptical that the jewish religious system kept any copies of hebrew scriptures anywhere?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:15 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:43 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 141 of 174 (499868)
02-21-2009 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by PaulK
02-21-2009 5:43 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
The fact that it was a burnt-out ruin. As I keep saying.
the temple stood for many centuries before its final destruction by the romans. What was in the temple before 70CE? Are you saying that it did not hold any scriptures in it before its destruction in 70CE.?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:43 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:03 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 143 of 174 (499874)
02-21-2009 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by PaulK
02-21-2009 6:03 AM


RE: Which One
first please explain why the temple would not have housed copies of the hebrew scriptures
you already agree that other synagogues would have, but why is it unlikley that the temple would have housed them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:03 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:48 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 145 of 174 (500018)
02-22-2009 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by PaulK
02-21-2009 6:48 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:
I keep telling you why. Because it was a burnt-out ruin.
it was perfectly in tact up until 70CE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:48 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2009 3:27 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 147 of 174 (500023)
02-22-2009 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by PaulK
02-22-2009 3:27 AM


RE: Which One
he wrote many writings about the history of the jews
historians, as i said earlier, write 'history'
he wrote history
BTW, Josephus's 'day' spanned his whole lifetime...not just the later years of his life when he wrote most of his writings.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2009 3:27 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2009 7:12 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 149 by Kapyong, posted 02-22-2009 4:47 PM Peg has not replied

  
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