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Author Topic:   Why is a Literal Ark Important?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 9 of 22 (505212)
04-09-2009 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AustinG
04-07-2009 11:13 PM


Point of Fact
AustinG writes:
I don't care how many "kinds" there were (I want to throttle Kent Hovind right now for coining that rediculous word).
Hello AustinG.
Welcome to EvC.
FYI: Kent Hovind did not coin the term "kinds." The expression comes directly from the Bible itself.
quote:
Gen 8:19 - "Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, [and] whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark."
And prior to that:
quote:
Gen 1:12 - "And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good."
And so on, throughout the first chapter of Genesis and beyond.
Please do not make the mistake which so many others have made: of debating a biblical issue without reading the relevant text (in this case the first page of the first book of The Book). Or does your Bible use a word other than "kind"?
BTW. Both "genus" and "species" are Latin Words which may be translated "kind."
In fact, at Genesis 1:12, where the word "kind" appears twice, the Latin Bible gives it as "genus" in the first instance, and "species" in the second.
I hope such mysterious complexity does not discourage you from a hobby in Bible study. It is a truly marvelous, and for me eternally fascinating, word puzzle.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AustinG, posted 04-07-2009 11:13 PM AustinG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by bluescat48, posted 04-09-2009 8:10 AM doctrbill has replied
 Message 12 by AustinG, posted 04-09-2009 7:47 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 11 of 22 (505245)
04-09-2009 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by bluescat48
04-09-2009 8:10 AM


Re: Point of Fact
bluescat48 writes:
So then can I assume that Noah had 4 elephants, since they are from different genera, 2 African and 2 Asian?
I suppose that would be reasonable if one insists on applying conventions of modern science to the poetry of ancient legends. And if that is what one wishes to do, then I submit he had rather 8 elephants: 2 African, 2 Asian, 2 Mammoth, and 2 Mastadon. Even that would, perhaps, be a conservative estimate for I am under the impression that there is fossil evidence of many different kinds of elephant.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by bluescat48, posted 04-09-2009 8:10 AM bluescat48 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by onifre, posted 04-10-2009 4:57 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 13 of 22 (505294)
04-09-2009 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by AustinG
04-09-2009 7:47 PM


A Semantic Issue
By coined, I mean popularized.
You realize the difference now. Yes?
Semantics only cloud the issue.
So you understand why you were misunderstood. Yes?
And Hey, Semantics ARE the issue. Every question of interpretation IS a semantic issue; including whether or not to take it literally.
Semantic
ADJECTIVE:
Of or relating to meaning, especially meaning in language. American Heritage Dictionary

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by AustinG, posted 04-09-2009 7:47 PM AustinG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Taz, posted 04-09-2009 10:41 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 18 of 22 (505373)
04-10-2009 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by onifre
04-10-2009 4:57 PM


Re: Point of Fact
onifre writes:
Mastadons went extinct way before the flood date of 4500 years ago.
Mammoths, maybe, but not likely since they too went extinct before the flood, but, closer to the date of 4500 years ago, depending on which source is used.
Working within the myth, of course, all of them were on the ark.
But the word "genus" and "species" which you describe...Are in fact representing conventional scientifc terms. You used it in the same form trying to reach a different outcome.
Indeed. A fine example of what not to do.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by onifre, posted 04-10-2009 4:57 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by AustinG, posted 04-10-2009 8:18 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 21 of 22 (505394)
04-11-2009 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by AustinG
04-10-2009 8:18 PM


Re: Point of Fact
AustinG writes:
I still would like to know why a few people (who call them selves creationist or IDist), within the last ten years, insist on refuting hundreds of years of scientific research in order to explain their faith based beliefs.
They did the same thing during the 16th and 17th centuries; refusing to believe Copernicus; quoting the Bible to prove him wrong. The Bible hasn't changed but now they claim it supports Copernicus. Go figure!
Its seems as though they (Creationists/intelligent design advicates) are attempting to legitimize their world view through science. To me, this is totally unneccessary. If there are problems with scientific theory, sure, these errors must be pointed out; however, I'm not convinced that's their entire agenda.
That's it exactly.
And you're right about there being more to their agenda. They (religionists) once had a lot of power in government, during what we call The Dark Ages.
They would like to have that power again.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by AustinG, posted 04-10-2009 8:18 PM AustinG has not replied

  
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