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Author Topic:   Vapour canopy and fountains of the deep
Rahvin
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Posts: 4040
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.1


Message 56 of 144 (507519)
05-05-2009 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ICANT
05-05-2009 2:32 PM


Re: bump for creationist contribution
Maybe you are right and science is wrong, I don't know.
But I understand from what I have read that if the hard crust of the earth was smooth all land would be covered by 2 miles of water.
Well, gee golly, if we completely ignore everything we know about plate tectonics and geology, then there's enough water! Wowee!!
What, praytell, would cause the Earth to go from a uniformly smooth body to the decidedly non-uniform Earth we see today within the span of human history, and then slow down to the rate of geological change we see today?
Why are other planets like Mars and Venus not also uniformly smooth?
You're proposing a "what if" as evidence that such a thing actually occurred, without providing any evidence whatsoever to support the assertion that the Earth was ever smooth.
Provide evidence toppling currently accepted models of plate tectonics and the geological history of the Earth, or concede.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ICANT, posted 05-05-2009 2:32 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by RAZD, posted 05-06-2009 9:38 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4040
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.1


Message 66 of 144 (507574)
05-06-2009 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Peg
05-06-2009 4:33 AM


Re: bump for creationist contribution
Hi percy,
I dont know how the water vapor remained aloft, but certainly it takes heat the keep water vaporised. The upper regions of the atmosphere (thermosphere) is at a high enough temperature to keep the water vaporised.
Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, the upper atmosphere is too sparse to actually contain much water - and the water molecules at that height are subjected to high-energy particles that "crack" H2O into bare Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms. You cannot store significant amounts of water in the upper atmosphere.
Also we know that water vapor is lighter than air and other gases making up the atmosphere.
...no, it's not. Not always. It depends on temperature. Fog is also water vapor, yet it rests on the ground. Clouds are water vapor, but they're hardly "lighter than air" - they're simply lighter than some of the air.
So there is thus nothing physically impossible about thermal vapor blanket existing in the upper atmosphere.
Yes, there is, as has been shown. You simply don't understand the concepts you're talking about.
But more importantly, we've already established that there is insufficient water on the Earth to account for a global Flood. If there were such a canopy, and there were such a Flood - where did the water go?
ICANT likes to pretend that the Earth was completely flat before the Flood, and that the lowering of elevation for the oceans and raising of land mass after the Flood accounts for why there is insufficient water to cover the world today. Unfortunately, that violates everything we know about the geological history of the Earth, and all of plate tectonics (not to mention postulating that such a catastrophic geological change as that can actually happen within the span of human history and leave no evidence behind - the amount of tectonic activity required in such a short timespan would be far more effective in killing all life than a simple Flood).
It actually would explain quite a lot in terms of the warm climate that the frozen arctic areas once enjoyed.
Curiously, plate tectonics does a far better job of this, without magical water that suspends itself in the upper atmosphere, rains down for the Flood, and then disappears. It even has -gasp!- evidence to support it. The "frozen arctic" regions were once attached to the rest of the super-continent that we call Pangaea. Tectonic plates driven by magma convection have since separated the super-continent into the continents we see today in a process that has taken millions upon millions of years and is continuing today.
The atmosphere on Mars has small traces of water vapor which are somehow suspended. Another reason not to doubt the validity of the claim that the earth may have had a water vapor at one time.
As Percy has noted, those traces of water on Mars are "somehow suspended" in the same way water vapor anywhere else is suspended. The air on Earth is full of water (nowhere near enough to cause a global Flood of course, but still quite wet).
Your ignorance and religious bias are forcing you to grasp at any scrap of information that supports "Water in the sky," even when the evidence you're using quite plainly does not support anything approaching a "vapor canopy" in the upper atmosphere capable of accountign for a global Flood. You're participating in apologetics - and you're not going to get anywhere in terms of accurately representing reality that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Peg, posted 05-06-2009 4:33 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Percy, posted 05-06-2009 3:58 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 81 by Peg, posted 05-07-2009 6:33 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4040
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.1


Message 68 of 144 (507580)
05-06-2009 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Son
05-06-2009 2:11 PM


Re: bump for creationist contribution
Why don't you just say it was magic? God made water appear then disappear. Why do you always try to find some kind of scientific proof when it is doomed to fail? I thought you only needed faith with religion.
Would not water that was -poofed- in and out of existence for the Flood leave evidence behind? Perhaps a layer of sediment, not uniform in composition but stretching over the entire world, littered with the fossilized remains of an entire generation's worth of flash-flooded animals, sorted not in different geological strata by age but rather by buoyancy and swimming ability, dating to the same time period less than 10,000 years ago, interrupting previously ongoing annual sedimentary deposits like what we see in lakes and rivers, and generally looking like a Flood happened?
Or did God -poof- away all of that, as well, at the same time he -poofed- all of teh marsupials to Australia, all of the indigenous American, Antarctic, and other animals to their distant locations, and -poofed- away all of the genetic bottlenecks that should appear in human beings and all other living things?
If God -poofed- all of the water, and then -poofed- all of the evidence, how could we possibly tell the difference between the whether the Flood did or did not actually happen?
If we have no objective manner of differentiating fantasy from reality in this way, why arbitrarily have faith in this particular magical fairy tale, but not any other magical fairy tale from other religions?
Why don't we simply have faith in any and every fantasy we come up with, since corroboration with objective reality is apparently unimportant anyway?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Son, posted 05-06-2009 2:11 PM Son has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Son, posted 05-06-2009 3:10 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
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