I thank you for your marvelous patience. I have collected our several exchanges following. I have replied to various sub-sections with a conclusion at the bottom
BobAliceEve writes:
Message 47You did not ask me either but I would like to expand the question:
Would old earth or young earth be the perceived duration by:
- Adam and Eve post exit from the Garden of Eden
- Noah at the flood
- Moses while receiving Genesis by revelation
- Jesus at the end of the Old Testament time
- (in addition to the people of Middle Ages in
Message 46)
The even better question is always, would these people tell you that Adam and Eve were created by God? The age of the earth does not matter if the Creation happened.
Meldinoor writes:
Four of the five people mentioned were mere mortals. There is no way to answer this question, and neither do we have reason to believe that they knew any better than we do (except Jesus, who may have been omniscient). In the hypothetical situation where YEC is correct, Adam and Eve may have known, but since evidence suggests that Adam and Eve evolved, I'd venture a guess that they wouldn't have known the subtleties of their own creation.
Possibly, there is a way to answer the question. Item 5 below may hold a clue?
Meldinoor writes:
I admit these are challenging questions. I'm not a biblical scholar, and I'm certainly not God, so I will only offer my rather limited guesses at your questions. I'm not sure how they pertain to this thread, but I have a feeling that you'll be able to connect it in some way. So here goes:
BobAliceEve writes:
1) How did God select Adam and Eve to place in the garden?
Melendor writes:
Ask God. Maybe Adam and Eve were the first humans to be given souls (although, if they lived 6000yrs ago, I think that's unlikely). The garden may have been metaphorical, as may Adam and Eve.
Ask God. is a wonderful answer. Of course people can’t both live 6000 years ago and be metaphorical. Since there had to be first humans (which we both equate with having souls) are you willing to let Adam and Eve stand in for them independent of your concern about the 6000 years? Are you willing to let the 6000 years be, for now, metaphorical and the people be the real part of the Bible account.
BobAliceEve writes:
2) What, generally or precisely, is the soul you mentioned earlier?
Meldinoor writes:
The soul is whatever part of you that carries on to the afterlife. Since emotion, memory, personality etc can be explained through physical processes, I'm not sure what that leaves. Some sort of consciousness presumably. If you know anyone who's had a near-death experience, they can probably guess better than I can.
Beasts too are conscious (see your answer to 4).
BobAliceEve writes:
3) What do you understand to be the purpose for God's starting the human family?
Meldinoor writes:
To set an example for how God wanted families to be, presumably.
I think your answer is right on point.
BobAliceEve writes:
4) Are we humans aware of our soul?
Meldinoor writes:
Are you? I don't go around thinking about my soul all the time. Humans are self-aware, but so are chimps, dolphins and elephants, so I don't think that has anything to do with it. I don't even know what a soul is, except that it must be some sort of spiritual component to a person's being. I'll leave it at that.
Yes, I am aware of my soul and I do think of my accountability daily. And it seems that you are correct in saying it is some sort of spiritual component to a person’s being (from 4 above). It seems to be the part of us that goes to the afterlife (from 2). The part that is accountable to God
Message 45 and
Message 49 (keep in mind the question about immortal beings).
BobAliceEve writes:
5) Can God communicate with us?
Meldinoor writes:
He does in the Bible many times. He even takes on human form in the New Testament. A lot of people claim to communicate with God on a personal level. I believe God communicates with me, through the world, through His book, and even at a personal level at times.
I have faith in the messages the Bible conveys. I don't treat it as a science book, certainly not the first chapters of Genesis, which to me, reads like allegory. As long as you take this approach you don't need to struggle to fit observational evidence with the Bible.
Allegory is good. God’s communicating with us is good. Deciding what parts of the Biblical account are allegory and what parts are real (His communicating with us) is difficult for an outsider who has not had your (and my) experience of personal communication with God. We know what we know.
Meldinoor writes:
I'm curious to see where you're going with these questions.
Conclusion:
Moses was able to record the account of the Creation some 800 years after it happened by communication from God. Moses knew what he knew. So if the creation account is allegory then why would Moses bother to provide the detail of Eve not being created at the same time that Adam was created (Gen 2:18-22)?
If Adam and Eve were not immortal then why would God warn them about death. If they were not intended to be be eventually restored to immortality why would God separate them from the tree of life (the antidote to the fall, see Gen 2:22-24) so they could not "live forever" as each "put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life" which they could have eventually done if they had stayed in the garden?
All the people listed are aware of their relationship with and accountability to God. Due to the structure of the creation account they also knew that they were created and that they were created immortal. Adam and Eve knew it, Moses knew it, Jesus knew it. Noah knew. I know it.
It is my thinking that all animals with souls can too if it is important to them and if they "Ask God". Suddenly, the age of the Earth is only a distraction to the true message of living together forever as families. What are your thoughts?
Again, I express my appreciation for your patience.
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