Could life evolve in the vacuum of outer space?

Hi TristanMC, and welcome to the Fray. Message 1
The first thing to remove from the issue are the objects that appear to be moving in regular paths - aka small asteroids in orbits, behaving according to the known physical laws. This leaves the very few erratic objects in the film.The second thing to remove from the issue is floating dust inside the cameras. Such dust particles can easily follow erratic paths due to being in a weightless (rather than gravity less) environment inside an orbiting object, subject to microwinds. Having multiple images from different cameras would accomplish this, and having only one image from one camera leaves it in doubt.The third thing to remove from the issue are the bits of space debris from the many launchings of all the nations on earth - my brother had a job at a radiotelescope keeping track of known objects, and they could discern objects down to the size of an astronaut\cosmonaut glove (somebody had a cold hand). The amount of debris that is KNOWN to exist is staggering, and cannot include ALL the debris that has been made.The fourth thing to remove from the issue are bright flashes and objects that appear to move inside the atmosphere when looked at from above or in plane, as (a) we do not know all the natural occurring phenomena (and are continually learning about new formations) and (b) of the known naturally occurring phenomena, there are several that involve items, like balls of lightning, that are known to move in erratic paths as they are controlled by electrostatic forces rather than gravity (being massless).Curiously, even in the orbit that the space shuttles normally reach, there is still a tenuous atmosphere, so it is possible to have some dust and other extremely light particles and have sufficient wind to affect their behavior. Such objects will "suddenly" appear and disappear as they move in or out of sunlight. Such object that contain ice accumulated overnight will see that ice evaporate during daylight, which can cause a burst of energy. What are we left with? No signs of objects eating other objects, reproducing or the like, and no objects with visible means of propulsion (no jet trails etc). Interestingly we know that there are many pre-biotic compounds floating in space. Many of these are in sufficient concentrations to see evidence of them from many many lightyears away. Google "pahs in space" and see how many articles come up.The Astrophysics & Astrochemistry Laboratory

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Duplicating the harsh conditions of cold interstellar space, scientists from NASA's Ames Research Center have shown that nitrogen containing aromatic molecules, chemical compounds that could be important for life's origin, are widespread throughout space.

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Combining laboratory experiments with computer simulations, this team had earlier shown that complex organic molecules known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) are widespread throughout space. PAHs, large, flat, chicken-wire shaped molecules made up of hydrogen and carbon are extremely stable and can withstand the hostile radiation environment of interstellar space. The Ames team showed that PAHs are responsible for the mysterious infrared radiation that astronomers first called the Unidentified Infrared Emission.
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However, this theory was conceived at a time when it was thought space was barren of complex organics because interstellar radiation is too harsh, the distances too great, and violent shocks too frequent to support complex chemistry, let alone survival of large molecules and their transport to planetary surfaces. In sharp contrast to that picture, this new work shows that the early chemical steps believed to be important for the origin of life do not require a previously formed planet to occur. Instead, some of the chemicals are already present throughout space long before planet formation occurs and, if they land in a hospitable environment, can help jump-start the origin of life.

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So I would not be surprised to find some such particles in orbit around earth, having been "picked up" as the solar system passes through space on its orbit around the galactic center. There's a fine line between uncritical and gullible. It is one thing to keep an open mind - open to possibilities currently unknown - and it is another to do so without skepticism.Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : spling

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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Hi again, TristanMC.Please use the message reply button rather than the thread reply button when you reply to someone:If you use the message reply buttons (there's one at the bottom right of each message):

... your message is linked to the one you are replying to (adds clarity). You can also look at the way a post is formated with the "peek" button next to it.You've used it before, so I know you can find it. This helps keep track of the thoughts you've posted and which have been replied to. This board is better than most others at being able to track this kind of thing, so we like to take advantage of it. Really?Or is it just apparent motion? Something coming at you and then barely missing seems to accelerate and change direction. Remember the POV (point of view) is not static, but an object in orbit along a curved path. You could track objects on the surface of the earth and they would appear to accelerate and change paths, when in reality it is just the different positions between object and viewer in a non-static frame of reference. But there needs to be something to make that can reproduce itself imperfectly, to even begin to qualify as "life" as it is understood in even the crudest sense. There are bacteria living in space, that is not a problem, the problem is organizing it and having sufficient concentration for reproduction. How about first defining what "life" is? Speculation is fun, but curiously, such speculation doesn't mean it has to occur. Then perhaps you would like to apply a little focus on your speculation, and pursue it to a logical conclusion, rather than just engaging in the next wild idea that occurs to you without resolving anything.Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

Hi again TristanMC, having a bit of an altitude adjustment problem, it seems. Message 19
Actually, I watched it twice, the second time to confirm my impressions left from the first one, with the overhype music turned off (let's one be a bit more objective about the evidence). You are familiar with the orbital problem of planets for the geocentric model of the universe aren't you? The ancients knew about the apparent "retrograde" orbit of planets, and it is one of the reasons that the geocentric model was discarded. Curiously, they happen at speeds relative to their orbital periods. In low orbit around the earth the relative periods are much smaller than those of jupiter etc etc etc around the sun.You can also have such particles in highly eccentric orbits with their perigee matching the space shuttle orbital height, making their apparent speed much higher to those in the shuttle. This would be similar to seeing comets move one way across the sky on approach to the sun and then move the other way on their departure.Perhaps you would like to make a mathematical model of the orbits to check this and see if you can prove me wrong. After all, this is what a skeptic would do to eliminate possible explanations before arriving at the "I don't know what it is, so it must be aliens" explanation. Strangely, you were the one who introduced the topic. Interestingly I don't do private messages with board members, but prefer the honesty of open posting of opinions, as I feel this is a much better way to arrive at productive discussions rather than degrading diatribes. That way any degrading diatribes can be brought to admins attention while those that aren't can focus on the topic. Intriguingly, this board frowns on calling people morons, rather than focusing on the issues. For the record I don't think you are a moron, although you may be ignorant of some basic science and fairly gullible\innocent in certain ways. So am I, it's part and parcel of being a human being.Part of learning is finding out when to discard invalid concepts, and this is normally difficult if you have invested some personal belief in the concepts involved, and find you need to revise your thinking. The process is called cognitive dissonance. Actually lyx2no is a rare combination of two people, with lyx2no₂ inheriting the name (and a number of posts) from an uncle after the uncle died. Fascinatingly this uncle did a pretty good job of educating the new lyx2no on how to make cogent posts, and how to back them up with substantiating evidence, rather than just off the cuff comments. No need to be petty when you could just say nothing and accomplish as much. The question is, have you learned anything? If you haven't learned anything then I apologize for our wasting our time on you.Enjoy.Edited by RAZD, : ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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Hi lyx2no2, We all come here to learn. Those that think they come here to teach have the most to learn. Learning humility and the ability to acknowledge when you are wrong are hard things to learn, especially when it comes to pet concepts. Such ridicule only serves its purpose when there are distinct ideas based on reason to contrast them to. Another good explanation for the observed phenomena. It is easy to forget the conditions under which the video/s were taken, and view them as being from a static, earth based camera, typical of the mundane views we are accustomed to, rather than the dynamic platform in a constantly being adjusted orbit. It could also be a learning experience on control and the responsibility that comes with freedom. Curiously, I have found no need for them. And you teach me as well. I had thought the number 44 was bizarre (42 I could understand).Space Shuttle Crew Prepares for Landing | Space

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The shuttle has a total of 44 thrusters that make up its reaction control system.

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Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

---

• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •