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Author Topic:   Why are there no human apes alive today?
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 4 of 1075 (512462)
06-18-2009 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Doubletime
06-18-2009 6:06 AM


Simplicity
It's very simple really. It's because they weren't adapted to their changing environment, while the other apes and we were.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Doubletime, posted 06-18-2009 6:06 AM Doubletime has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-18-2009 11:37 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 17 of 1075 (512599)
06-19-2009 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Doubletime
06-19-2009 9:56 AM


Doubletime writes:
LoL this is what i loooove with theese forums about faith or reigion. It is so easy to start flamers unintentionally ^^
RAZD is hardly a flamer, he's one of the best posters we have here, and you can learn alot from him.
Who said im a creationist?
No one. However, those that reject evolution often are.
Well humans are to be considerd as our own species quit frankly.
Strange that science doesn't agree with you, no?
Do you know why ? Because our brain capacity is far superior to any other creature.
That's not how species are indexed in biology.
was actually saying If evolution is true so there was no reseon to flame at all lol.
Don't use "lol" please, it gives off the impression that you're not taking this seriously and just want to act like some clown. Further, he wasn't flaming.
Are you saying im agaisnt science just because im against evolution?
Well, evolution is a part of science, and those that are against evolution often are, even though they reap the benefits of it in their everyday life.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Doubletime, posted 06-19-2009 9:56 AM Doubletime has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 53 of 1075 (512979)
06-23-2009 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Doubletime
06-23-2009 6:41 AM


Re: unfinished business before new threads?
Doubletime writes:
The reseon i had problems replying is because im kinda bussy irl.
There's no timelimit, post when you can. But please, make sure it's a quality post.
And when i spoke about archaptitetus i actually meant Austraphicitetus.
That's still wrong. I think you mean Australopithecus. I appreciate that English is not your first language, but misspellings like these are really unnecessary, not to mention of course that it's Latin and not English, but still.
Oh, and what's wrong with the perfectly fine intermediate fossils of the Australopithecus?
I guess we have gone very off topic. Nvm my misstakes. I will soak this new information up
Very good, and very mature of you to admit mistakes. This shows you are willing to learn.
I have read about evolution and so but it was a while ago.
We're here to help, if there's anything that's not clear, feel free to ask.
So what next ? can i simply surrender and close the discussion ? There are no humans apes alive today, because they all died out while the more primitive monkeys stayed undeveloped and survived. It makes sence.
Do you really mean that? Because I'm not sure if there is a hint of sarcasm in there. You can choose to no longer reply to this thread, but threads are generally only closed if they reach somewhere around the 300 post mark, or if they're going completely off-topic. In the latter case they can usually be requested to be reopened after a few days.
I think i will stick to religius topics from now on.
That's your choice, but there's a lot to learn here besides religion.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Doubletime, posted 06-23-2009 6:41 AM Doubletime has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 75 of 1075 (520253)
08-20-2009 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by traste
08-20-2009 2:13 AM


Re: Nonsense--again
traste writes:
Given that I read books for and againts evoltion is no hint that I have a little knowledge on this subject.
Then how come virtually everything you say about it is wrong?
You wrote"accepted the poison dish"well, this the most worst thing of all if I really did that,but I never did that I simpy believe in creation for the simple reason it is a better explanation when it comes to the emergenge of biological complexities in life.
But it's not even an explanation. "Goddidit" is the same as "we don't know, and never will".
Random mututaion is no help when it comes to the emergence of biological complexities,in fact resaerch show that genes ae powerful stabilizing mechanism that forbids mutation.
Another lie? This is why we say you are ignorant of evolution.
In addition it is a process that easily break genes tahn building them up.
So...now they DO happen...yet are "breaking the gene up". Make up your mind, either they are or they aren't happening.
Another problems of evolution is that at molecular level things are interdependent,and taht is contrast to gradual development of organism.
If you really knew about evolution, you wouldn't be saying these things.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by traste, posted 08-20-2009 2:13 AM traste has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 76 of 1075 (520255)
08-20-2009 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by traste
08-20-2009 2:33 AM


traste writes:
Well I think you justdont get it.
...
My point is since apemen is more advance than modern apes,orangutans, and many other types of monkeys,then (Why is it there is no other ape men living today?)
Because those apes were adapted to their (ever changing) environment, yet those apemen weren't. It's really that simple.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by traste, posted 08-20-2009 2:33 AM traste has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by traste, posted 09-23-2009 11:33 PM Huntard has not replied
 Message 135 by traste, posted 10-28-2009 12:51 AM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 98 of 1075 (525955)
09-25-2009 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Peg
09-25-2009 10:10 AM


Peg writes:
In The New Evolutionary Timetable, Steven Stanley spoke of the general failure of the record to display gradual transitions from one major group to another. He said: The known fossil record is not, and never has been, in accord with [slow evolution].
Niles Eldredge also admitted: The pattern that we were told to find for the last 120 years does not exist.
Original sources please? This seems very much like a creationist quotemine.
its this that has led to other radical theories such as life started elswhere and landed here on a meteorite.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with evolution.
The World Book Encyclopedia says that Many biologists think new species may be produced by sudden, drastic changes in genes. this is proposed because the fossils show sudden fully formed animals rather then progressive changes.
They show both. Fully formed animals that showcase progressive changes.
You would think that with all the millions of fossils collected, there would be at least some evidence to show that one kind of life turns into another kind.
Yes, this is why we have this evidence. It's called the fossil record.
But the gaps between different types of life found in the fossil record, as well as the gaps between different types of living things on earth today, still persist.
Only in creationist circles.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Peg, posted 09-25-2009 10:10 AM Peg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 12:20 AM Huntard has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 99 of 1075 (525956)
09-25-2009 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Peg
09-25-2009 10:16 AM


Peg writes:
biologist Jonathan Wells writes: At the level of kingdoms, phyla, and classes, descent with modification from common ancestors is obviously not an observed fact. To judge from the fossil and molecular evidence, it’s not even a well-supported theory.
Wells is lying.
many within the field are seeing it for themselves.
Pray tell, who are these "many" you refer to?

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Peg, posted 09-25-2009 10:16 AM Peg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 12:24 AM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 122 of 1075 (526175)
09-26-2009 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by traste
09-26-2009 12:24 AM


traste writes:
No,he is telling the truth.
Yes, let's assert all around. You studied biology and therefore know that wells is telling the truth? I'd like some evidence for that claim.
If I were the one you task, I will not because you will simply said they are lying.
So, there aren't any. Lying is frowned upon, you know. Or, if you're not lying, provide the names of the many biologists who disagree. I'm hardly in a position to deny a list of say...10.000 biologists who agree with Wells (yes, that would constitute many. Not 100, not 200, not 500. Do you have any idea how many biologists there are, anyway?)

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron
The outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony
My servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant
Clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery
Of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount
Paranoia the law
My name is called religion
Sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 12:24 AM traste has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 2:11 AM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 127 of 1075 (526181)
09-26-2009 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by traste
09-26-2009 2:11 AM


More assertions
traste writes:
Yeah I know some biology
I asked if you had studied it. That doesn't mean you know some biology. That means you have spent several years really studying the subject. Your other comments here make me think that was not the case.
like for example the DNA, folding the folding is very precise because if not it cease to function properly.
I appreciate English is not your first language, but what are you talking about here?
He is telling the truth on the ground that he implied, there is no way for blind material to bring up those precision
There is no way for simple water molecules to ever form a nice ordered and precise snowflake, it's just blind material. God must make every little snowflake himself.
those precision according to our common sense was design.
"Common sense" eh? So, the literal hundreds of thousands of studies into the subject are wrong, yet your "common sense" has cleared the matter in mere minutes. I'm sorry if I don't nominate you for the nobel price yet.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, ,y servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by traste, posted 09-26-2009 2:11 AM traste has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 144 of 1075 (533014)
10-28-2009 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by traste
10-28-2009 1:36 AM


Re: Wells
traste writes:
When a proponent of creation and a scientist present evidence in favor of it,was he entertain fairly,?
Evidence? What evidence? He had (false) critiques of evolution. This is not evidence for creation.
or he was easily dissmiss as a crank?
Since his ideas were wrong, he was indeed easily dismissed by the actual evidence.
As I said evaluating one's status is a genetic fallacy.
A genetic falacy? Surely you mean logical falacy? I know English is not your first language, but still.
Actually Wells in his book Icons Of Evolution ( I forgot the whole title) present publicized evidence that in conflict with Darwin's prediction.
No he doesn't. He presents false ideas and logical falacies and hopes readers don't know enough about evolution to buy into his lies.
To give you a clue let me present some the idea of primative atmosphere (the reducing one) fish turning into amphibians.
What? Please be a bit more specific.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by traste, posted 10-28-2009 1:36 AM traste has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by caffeine, posted 10-28-2009 7:41 AM Huntard has replied
 Message 152 by traste, posted 11-08-2009 2:36 AM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 146 of 1075 (533069)
10-28-2009 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by caffeine
10-28-2009 7:41 AM


Re: Genetic fallacy
caffeine writes:
The genetic fallacy is a logical fallacy, referring to the fact that the genesis of an argument (ie. who made it) is irrelevant to it's soundness. And fallacy has a double l.
Ah... My apologies then.
I thought English was your first language .
Uhm no. As you can see below my avatar, I'm from The Netherlands, I would like to think of English as my "second language" though. I don't know every little word form every little discipline, however.
But thanks for pointing out my error.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by caffeine, posted 10-28-2009 7:41 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by caffeine, posted 10-29-2009 5:06 AM Huntard has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 147 of 1075 (533146)
10-29-2009 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by traste
10-28-2009 12:51 AM


traste writes:
The question remains. What made the better adapted?
Evolution. Or, they possessed traits others didn't, which were beneficial.
the obvious answer is because they are more complex.
No, if others were overly complex, they could die out because the environment changed and they were too specialised to adapt.
So, it follows that the more complex the more itis better adapted.
No it doesn't.
So bacause apemen is more complex, the question is: Why there are no apemen alive today?
Because they weren't adapted well enough to their (ever changing) environment...

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by traste, posted 10-28-2009 12:51 AM traste has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 149 of 1075 (533163)
10-29-2009 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by caffeine
10-29-2009 5:06 AM


Re: Genetic fallacy
caffeine writes:
Aha, I should pay more attention. Sorry if I sounded a bit snarky. I'm not normally a spelling corrector - i just thought it had to be pointed out since you were being so critical of traste's English.
Oh, not at all. I appreciate being pointed out where I am wrong, how else am I to find new knowledge. And you are right, someone going off about somebody else being wrong, while being wrong themselves should be corrected.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by caffeine, posted 10-29-2009 5:06 AM caffeine has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 153 of 1075 (534437)
11-08-2009 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by traste
11-08-2009 2:36 AM


Re: Wells
traste writes:
In mathematics we called it,indirect proof.
What has this got to do with math? We're talking biology here.
No, they argue with ad hominem attacks and long disproved evidence of evolution.
No they don't. They're not creationists. He was rebutted easily and immediately with real verifiable evidence.
I think I know logic than you, a genetic fallacy is irrelevant in debunking one's argument becase it evaluates one's status not his argument.
Yes, you were right, I appologize. I didn't know the word "genetic falacy". Still, he was debunked by actual evidence.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by traste, posted 11-08-2009 2:36 AM traste has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2315 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 223 of 1075 (621054)
06-23-2011 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by hooah212002
06-23-2011 1:19 AM


Re: More evolved?
hooah212002 writes:
say you are in the sahara desert. Are you "more evolved" than the lion that is huntin you down?
You do know that lions don't live in deserts, but in savannah grasslands, yes? (just checking )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by hooah212002, posted 06-23-2011 1:19 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Wounded King, posted 06-23-2011 6:13 AM Huntard has replied

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