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Author Topic:   ICANT'S position in the creation debate
kbertsche
Member
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 16 of 687 (520590)
08-22-2009 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by ICANT
08-22-2009 10:53 AM


Re: What's the time frames, and how about common ancestry
quote:

Minnemooseus writes:
quote:
The age of the universe?

...

The universe could have began to exist anywhere in that eternal light period.

Minnemooseus writes:

quote:
The age of the Earth?

The earth could have then begin to exist in the universe whenever it began to exist.



The above is consistent with the Hebrew grammar. The book of Genesis does not date either the creation of the universe or the earth. Gen 1:1 describes the first act of creation--to create the universe and the earth. The second verse says that now the earth exists in an unfinished state. The third verse describes, from an earth-centered perspective, six "days" of finishing the rest of creation. The first act (Gen 1:1) stands outside of the six day structure which begins in v. 3; even if one believes the six days are literal and recent, v. 1 is undated.

quote:
Now if I listen to my Hebrew instructor my problem is solved. He said the word 'beginning' should have been 'beginning's'.

That would solve my problem as there was an eternal light period that had ended in Genesis 1:2 as far as the earth was concerned.



I don't follow this argument. Can you expand on it?

quote:
Minnemooseus writes:
quote:
The age of the first life on Earth?

According to Genesis 2:7 the first life on earth was mankind before plants, animals or fowls.



This is clearly not consistent with modern science, and I don't see how it is consistent with Gen 1, either. (In Gen 1, all other life appears before man.) Can you give a fuller textual explanation for your conclusion that man was the first life form on earth?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 10:53 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 3:11 PM kbertsche has responded

    
Straggler
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 17 of 687 (520591)
08-22-2009 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by ICANT
08-22-2009 11:31 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
When did the BBT begin to speak about the beginning of the universe?

Dude is this inevitably going to be one of those "uncaused cause" threads again?

If so shall we just cut to the chase and get down to that topic specifically?

If that is not the purpose of your thread then fine. I'll leave that particular topic alone. But if that is where, as it seems, we are inevitably heading shall we cut out the various middle men and get down to it? If so let's ignore the distractions of modern physics and whatever other scientific theories people waste their time explaining to you and just get down to "uncaused causes".

Let me know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 11:31 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 12:26 PM Straggler has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 18 of 687 (520593)
08-22-2009 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Straggler
08-22-2009 11:30 AM


Re: Prove .
Hi Straggler,

Straggler writes:

Well which part of Genesis are we talking about specifically? Or does finding evidence contrary to any aspect of the Genesis story invalidate the whole thing?

I think I was very specific.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God caused the universe and the earth to begin to exist.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God breathed life into mankind. Life began on earth when God put life into man.

Straggler writes:

Isn't the flood and the destruction of all humanity in the book of Genesis? I don't want to hijack your thread down that specific route but that one has been pretty conclusively invalidated has it not?

Until the universe exists, and the earth exists with life on it anything about a flood is nonsensical.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2009 11:30 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2009 12:00 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 19 of 687 (520595)
08-22-2009 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ICANT
08-22-2009 11:44 AM


Re: Prove .
So is the point of your thread the whole "uncaused cause" argument or not?

Because people are going to waste a lot of time talking about various things with you when all that really matters to you is the "uncaused cause" thing.

Which ultimately has little to do with BB theory. Or any of the other scientific theories you have mentioned thus far.

So is that what we are talking about or not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 11:44 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 2579 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 20 of 687 (520596)
08-22-2009 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ICANT
08-22-2009 11:31 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
No comment on the babbling.

Nor upon anything else of value.

You have a nice day, ICANT. I, unlike your thread, am going somewhere.

Edited by lyx2no, : Typo.


It's not the man that knows the most that has the most to say.
Anon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 11:31 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 21 of 687 (520597)
08-22-2009 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Straggler
08-22-2009 11:36 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
Hi Straggler,

Straggler writes:

Dude is this inevitably going to be one of those "uncaused cause" threads again?

I started this thread because I was told I was muking up another thread in which I said the Bible did not teach the universe was 6000 years old. That YEC'S and most here put forth the Bible taught that.

In another thread I was told:

Science has proven the Genesis story to be false.

I asked for the evidence to back up that assertion.

In this thread I am asking for the evidence that science has that proves Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:7 to be false.

To prove those false all you or anyone else would have to do is produce the evidence of the facts of exactly how the universe began or how life began.

Either the evidence exists or it does not exist.

I go with the evidence does not exist.

So why is it presented and taught as a fact?

The only answer science has for how the universe began to exist is, "we don't know".

The only answer science has for how life began to exist is, "we don't know".

Without knowing the answer to those two questions everything else is a guess.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2009 11:36 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2009 12:32 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 686 by Tryannasapien Rex, posted 08-25-2011 6:32 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 687 (520598)
08-22-2009 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ICANT
08-22-2009 12:26 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
Science has proven the Genesis story to be false.

Well it has unearthed a serious amount of evidence that contradicts most of the stories in Genesis. Is that no enough?

The only answer science has for how the universe began to exist is, "we don't know".

The only answer science has for how life began to exist is, "we don't know".

You seem to conclude that the human need for an answer means that there must be one available.

Isn't "we don't know" the honest and truthful answer to hese questions?

Without knowing the answer to those two questions everything else is a guess.

Why?

So is this about unacaused causes or not? Because if not I will leave the subject. If it is just say so.

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 12:26 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 3:30 PM Straggler has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 23 of 687 (520609)
08-22-2009 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by kbertsche
08-22-2009 11:35 AM


Re: What's the time frames, and how about common ancestry
Hi kbertsche,

kbertsche writes:

The second verse says that now the earth exists in an unfinished state. The third verse describes, from an earth-centered perspective, six "days" of finishing the rest of creation.

I do not believe it exists in an unfinished state in Genesis 1:1.

Therefore it had become an empty uninhabitable place. It was in darkness and covered with water. Inhabitable to water creatures only, maybe.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

According to Isaiah God did not create the earth tohuw. (vain}

Yet in Genesis 1:2 it is said to be tohuw (without form)

So if God did not create it tohuw in Genesis 1:1 as he states in Isaiah 45:18 it came to exist tohuw as it is in Genesis 1:2.

kbertsche writes:

quote:
That would solve my problem as there was an eternal light period that had ended in Genesis 1:2 as far as the earth was concerned.

I don't follow this argument. Can you expand on it?

I will expand below.

kbertsche writes:

quote:
According to Genesis 2:7 the first life on earth was mankind before plants, animals or fowls.

This is clearly not consistent with modern science, and I don't see how it is consistent with Gen 1, either. (In Gen 1, all other life appears before man.) Can you give a fuller textual explanation for your conclusion that man was the first life form on earth?

It may not be consistent with Genesis 1:2 - 1:31 But it is consistent with Genesis 1:1.

I don't see how it could be inconsistent with modern science as modern science does not know how life came to exist. It is not consistent with what is believe to be the way it happened.

As a 10 year old boy reading the Bible I read Genesis chapter 1 and was confused as to how the universe God created was in such a mess at Genesis 1:2. It just did not fit. God is perfect, everything He does is perfect. The earth was not perfect at Genesis 1:2.

So I continued to read and I found a verse that claimed to explain what happened in Genesis 1:1.

Genesis 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The next day I went to the school library and looked up the word generations. I had problems with how what I read could be used in that verse so I asked my English teacher to explain. She said well generations is the history of a family as you trace the family tree.

So then I understood Genesis 2:4 to be saying it was the history of what happened in the day God created the heaven and the earth.

After studying the Bible for the last 60 years, and Hebrew for many of those years I have come to the conclusion that 10 year old was right.

Genesis 1:1 declares that God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:4 declares to be the history/account of what happened in the day the Lord God created the earth and the heavens.

Earth first as the emphasis will be on the earth.

Genesis 2:5 tells us the earth was uninhabited, it had not rained, and there was no man.

Genesis 2:6 tells us the face of the earth was watered by a mist from the earth.

Genesis 2:7 tells us God formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into that form the breath of life and he became a living soul.

Life existed in God and He imparted life into man. Verifying life begats life.

Genesis 2:8 tells us God planted a garden for man to live in.

Genesis 2:9 tells us God caused fruit bearing trees to grow and also the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden.

Genesis 2:10 - 2:14 describes a river that flowed from Eden that divided into four and watered the whole land.

Genesis 2:15 restates the putting of man into the Garden.

Genesis 2:16 tells us the man was told he could freely eat of the fruit of the trees.

Genesis 2:17 tells us there was one exception to the trees man could eat the fruit of. He was told the day he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would die.

Genesis 2:18 God said it was good that man should be alone.

Genesis 2:19 tells us out of the ground God formed the animals and the fowls.

Genesis 2:20 tells us the man named all the animals and fowl.

Genesis 2:21 tells us God took a rib from the man.

Genesis 2:22 tells us God made a woman from that rib.

Genesis 2:23 tells us the man said "she shall be called woman because she was taken out of man".

Genesis 2:24 tells us man would give up all for the woman he loved.

skipping the fluff

Genesis 3:6 tells us the woman ate the fruit and when she gave it to her husband he chose to eat the fruit also. Proving what he said in Genesis 2:4 he gave up everything unto death for the woman.

Genesis 3:7 - 4:24 tells us of their eyes being opened. God kicking them out of His estate into the world. There they had children who had children, who built a city.

There were two people in this account that died. Able and a young man slain by Lamech.

No age of any of these people are ever mentioned anywhere.

Don't get hung up on the transliteration of the Hebrew word for man.

This is the end of this account as I have not been able to tie anything else to it. That does not mean there is not more that belongs with this story.

All these events took place in the light period of the day the Lord God made the earth and the heaven.

Which brings us to the evening at Genesis 1:2, darkness had come, water covered the face of the earth and there was no inhabitants.

God is light so He brought fourth light in Genesis 1:3.

In Genesis 1:4 God separated the light and darkness.

In Genesis 1:5 God called the light day and the darkness He called night. He then combined the evening (darkness) found in Genesis 1:2 with the light period that began 12 hours later as day one.

In the following 5 24 hour periods we have described several things that took place with large numbers of huge water creatures being bara (created). We also have a male and a female mankind created in Genesis 1:27 in the image/likeness of God.

This couple was created at the same time after all animals, fish, and fowl was made/created.

This man and woman was never placed in a garden.

This couple are told to:

Genesis 1:28 Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.

Genesis 1:29 They were told they could eat the fruit from any tree. Nothing was forbidden for them to eat.

Genesis 1:31 tells us this was the end of day six.

Genesis 2:1 tells us everything was finished.

Genesis 2:2 tells us God ceased from His work of making things.

Genesis 2:3 tells us God ceased from all his bara (creating) He is still ceased from creating but will resume when He creates a New Heaven and a New Earth.

I would like to point out there was no seas in the story of chapter 2 as water creatures were not created at that time. There was only the rivers and the mist.
God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by kbertsche, posted 08-22-2009 11:35 AM kbertsche has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by kbertsche, posted 08-22-2009 3:46 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 84 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2009 8:40 AM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 24 of 687 (520614)
08-22-2009 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Straggler
08-22-2009 12:32 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
Hi Straggler,

Here

You state:

quote:
OK. The universe quite possibly "just is".

Which would mean the universe was an uncaused existence.

Or that the universe was infinite.

But science says the universe can not be infinite and us be here.

So who is going on about an uncaused cause.

I am on record as saying I believe the universe has always existed in some form.

Do I believe it could have changed form and began to exist as we see it today.

I have to answer yes because I am not blind.

Do I believe it could have changed form by itself.

No not without a cause.

If you want to proceed down the uncaused cause road why don't you proceed to explain how the universe "just is".

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2009 12:32 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Straggler, posted 08-22-2009 5:51 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 25 of 687 (520617)
08-22-2009 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phage0070
08-22-2009 11:02 AM


Re: Congrats. I Think You've One You Can Win.
Hi Phage,

Phage0070 writes:

You cannot prove that the invisible pink unicorn, or the flying spaghetti monster does not exist. Why don't you hold them in the same regard?

I can not prove the beautiful pink unicorn or the spaghetti monster does not exist.

But they did not have a man write down in a book some 3300 years ago that they created the heavens and the earth, nor that they imparted life into a form.

God did that.

So to prove He did not do what He said He did would go a long way towards proving He does not exist. Or at least He or the writers were liars.

So to prove God did not do what He said He did in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:7 all anyone has to do is produce the evidence of the facts of exactly how the universe began to exist and life began to exist.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phage0070, posted 08-22-2009 11:02 AM Phage0070 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phage0070, posted 08-22-2009 5:22 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 31 by hooah212002, posted 08-22-2009 6:30 PM ICANT has responded

    
kbertsche
Member
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 26 of 687 (520618)
08-22-2009 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ICANT
08-22-2009 3:11 PM


Re: What's the time frames, and how about common ancestry
quote:
I do not believe it exists in an unfinished state in Genesis 1:1.

Therefore it had become an empty uninhabitable place. It was in darkness and covered with water. Inhabitable to water creatures only, maybe

According to Isaiah God did not create the earth tohuw. (vain}

Yet in Genesis 1:2 it is said to be tohuw (without form)

So if God did not create it tohuw in Genesis 1:1 as he states in Isaiah 45:18 it came to exist tohuw as it is in Genesis 1:2.



You seem to be describing some form of the Gap Theory. I don't hold to this, but I agree that it is a tenable view.

quote:
I don't see how it could be inconsistent with modern science as modern science does not know how life came to exist. It is not consistent with what is believe to be the way it happened.

We don't know how life began on earth, but we have evidence as to when. We have evidence of single-celled life roughly 3.5 billion years ago. There is absolutely no way to put humans this far back. Hominids only go back a few million years, not a few billion.

quote:
Genesis 1:1 declares that God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:4 declares to be the history/account of what happened in the day the Lord God created the earth and the heavens.

Earth first as the emphasis will be on the earth.

Genesis 2:5 tells us the earth was uninhabited, it had not rained, and there was no man.

Genesis 2:6 tells us the face of the earth was watered by a mist from the earth.

Genesis 2:7 tells us God formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into that form the breath of life and he became a living soul.

Life existed in God and He imparted life into man. Verifying life begats life.

Genesis 2:8 tells us God planted a garden for man to live in.

Genesis 2:9 tells us God caused fruit bearing trees to grow and also the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden.

...

Genesis 3:6 tells us the woman ate the fruit and when she gave it to her husband he chose to eat the fruit also. Proving what he said in Genesis 2:4 he gave up everything unto death for the woman.

Genesis 3:7 - 4:24 tells us of their eyes being opened. God kicking them out of His estate into the world. There they had children who had children, who built a city.

There were two people in this account that died. Able and a young man slain by Lamech.

No age of any of these people are ever mentioned anywhere.

Don't get hung up on the transliteration of the Hebrew word for man.

This is the end of this account as I have not been able to tie anything else to it. That does not mean there is not more that belongs with this story.

All these events took place in the light period of the day the Lord God made the earth and the heaven.

Which brings us to the evening at Genesis 1:2, darkness had come, water covered the face of the earth and there was no inhabitants.

God is light so He brought fourth light in Genesis 1:3.

In Genesis 1:4 God separated the light and darkness.

In Genesis 1:5 God called the light day and the darkness He called night. He then combined the evening (darkness) found in Genesis 1:2 with the light period that began 12 hours later as day one.

In the following 5 24 hour periods we have described several things that took place with large numbers of huge water creatures being bara (created). We also have a male and a female mankind created in Genesis 1:27 in the image/likeness of God.

This couple was created at the same time after all animals, fish, and fowl was made/created.

This man and woman was never placed in a garden.



Interesting perspective--I've never heard this view before. I'll have to think about it. You are essentially placing Gen 2:4-Gen 4 ahead of Gen 1:2-2:3.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 3:11 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 4:42 PM kbertsche has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 27 of 687 (520624)
08-22-2009 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by kbertsche
08-22-2009 3:46 PM


Re: What's the time frames, and how about common ancestry
Hi kbertsche,

kbertsche writes:

We don't know how life began on earth, but we have evidence as to when. We have evidence of single-celled life roughly 3.5 billion years ago. There is absolutely no way to put humans this far back. Hominids only go back a few million years, not a few billion.

If you don't know how it began, how do you know when it began?

You only know what you believe and have been told and what can be found in the scanty fossil records.

With all the extinction events that have happened and all the times the plates of the earth have shifted from the land mass being in one place to all over the place as science tells us it has.

How can we find anything that existed 3 billion years ago?

I know it would have to be microscopic.

I don't think you would find a man's remains from that time. In fact his body was supposed to go back to the earth from which it came.

kbertsche writes:

You seem to be describing some form of the Gap Theory. I don't hold to this, but I agree that it is a tenable view.

Well I have studied 5 different Gap Theories and none of them hold what I do.

None of them have man on earth billions of years ago.

Some have angels, but not man.

According to the account of Genesis 1:1 man was the first creature formed from the dust of the earth. He was the first life form. What did he look like? No clue is given. The only thing I know about him was he was very smart. A lady spent 40 years in Africa cataloging animals and did not have them all.

The first man named them all. In Hebrew at that. So he was very smart.

He was very devoted to his wife. He chose to eat the fruit and die with her.

kbertsche writes:

Interesting perspective--I've never heard this view before. I'll have to think about it. You are essentially placing Gen 2:4-Gen 4 ahead of Gen 1:2-2:3.

Prior to about a thousand years ago there was no chapters and verses so how did they keep everything separated and in proper order?

Especially if some of those scribes are like some of our self appointed scribes today.

What determined what order the tablets, scrolls or skins were kept in?

So yes I think Genesis 1:2 is totally out of place and has nothing to do with the creation of Genesis 1:1.

This is where most gapers part from me.

Genesis says it is the account of the heaven and the earth when they were bara(created, the same as in Genesis 1:1) in the day the Lord God made the earth and the heaven.

The following verses are the account of what happened that light period.

In Genesis 1:5 God called the light Day. (In the day)

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by kbertsche, posted 08-22-2009 3:46 PM kbertsche has acknowledged this reply

    
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 687 (520627)
08-22-2009 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by ICANT
08-22-2009 3:46 PM


Re: Congrats. I Think You've One You Can Win.
ICANT writes:

I can not prove the beautiful pink unicorn or the spaghetti monster does not exist.

But they did not have a man write down in a book some 3300 years ago that they created the heavens and the earth, nor that they imparted life into a form.


Gaia and Ouranos are written about in a similar fashion, yet you do not believe in them. Surely you are not equating "really old" with "true"? After all, there are many old writings that are clearly false; for instance the Earth is not flat, or on the back of a giant tortoise.

So, what is the real reason?

ICANT writes:

So to prove He did not do what He said He did would go a long way towards proving He does not exist. Or at least He or the writers were liars.

So to prove God did not do what He said He did in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:7 all anyone has to do is produce the evidence of the facts of exactly how the universe began to exist and life began to exist.


It sure would! But it goes both ways, right? If we can prove God didn't do other things he said he did, then we can cast significant doubt on the Genesis story as well, correct?

But before we get to that we still need to figure out why we are trying to disprove this particular story, and not going after Gaia. So tell me ICANT, why is this particular old story so much more trustworthy than any other?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 3:46 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 6:26 PM Phage0070 has responded

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 29 of 687 (520630)
08-22-2009 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ICANT
08-22-2009 3:30 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
If you want to proceed down the uncaused cause road why don't you proceed to explain how the universe "just is".

Well which part of "just is" do you have a problem with or not understand?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 3:30 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ICANT, posted 08-22-2009 7:43 PM Straggler has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 30 of 687 (520635)
08-22-2009 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phage0070
08-22-2009 5:22 PM


Re: Congrats. I Think You've One You Can Win.
Hi Phage,

Phage0070 writes:

But before we get to that we still need to figure out why we are trying to disprove this particular story, and not going after Gaia. So tell me ICANT, why is this particular old story so much more trustworthy than any other?

You produce the evidence of the facts of exactly how the universe began to exist and life began to exist. and you get all those stories you are alluding too as well.

So take them all out at once.

If the evidence exists present it.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phage0070, posted 08-22-2009 5:22 PM Phage0070 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Phage0070, posted 08-22-2009 7:35 PM ICANT has responded

    
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