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Author Topic:   Christ making statements about Creation
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2152 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 3 of 83 (520671)
08-23-2009 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by New Cat's Eye
08-22-2009 7:39 PM


quote:
What I'm getting at is that you have a false dichotomy here because Jesus doesn't have to be incorrect if he wasn't endorsing the statement as factual. Or at least, its a way to rationalize the two.
And I'm not trying to convince you that this must be right. I'm trying to explain how one can be a true christian and still accept evolution.
Even if Jesus was endorsing the statement as factual, how does this conflict with theistic evolution? It simply says that God created males and females to be together--it says nothing about when or how God did this. I don't know any theistic evolutionist who would deny divine creation, so I don't see a conflict with Mk 10:6.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2009 7:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2009 1:24 AM kbertsche has seen this message but not replied

  
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2152 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 8 of 83 (520748)
08-23-2009 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jaywill
08-23-2009 2:48 PM


quote:
The logic that Jesus would refer to fictional characters in Genesis to support His teaching seems not strong in the following case:
"I say to you that it will be more tolerable for Sodom in that day than for that city" (Luke 10:12)
Jesus is saying that in some last judgment it would be more tolerable for the inhabitants of Sodom than for those of cities which turned away Christ and His apostles. This does not argue that a comparison would be made between actual people and fictional people in God's final judgment.
"And you Copernaum, who have been exalted to heaven, to Hades you will be brought down. For if the works of power which took place in you had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until this day." (Matt. 11:23)
This argues for the evidence that the Genesis story of the destruction of Sodom was regarded as history to Jesus.
"Truly I say to you, It will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city." (Matt. 10:15)
He could not mean that it would be relatively more tolerable for fictional people at the last judgment than for real people.
Very good points. I think it is fair to conclude that Jesus considered Sodom to be a historical city.
Most Christians who consider the first few chapters of Genesis to be non-historical would agree with you. Most of these folks consider the historical part of the book to start in Gen 12, so would agree that Sodom is historical.
quote:
Jesus also said that the Devil was a murderer from the beginning. It is logical that "the beginning" refers to something written in Genesis. The murder of Abel at the hands of Cain would be the best candidate for a murder in the beginning.
And that would indicate that Jesus took Genesis chapter 4 as history. Jesus also says "And Scripture cannot be broken." He must have believed the Old Testament Scriptures including Genesis.
I see your logic, but this is not nearly as strong as your first point. It is conceivable that Cain and Abel were fictional examples of the sort of thing that the Devil inflicted on humanity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jaywill, posted 08-23-2009 2:48 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by jaywill, posted 08-25-2009 7:43 AM kbertsche has seen this message but not replied

  
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