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Author Topic:   ICANT'S position in the creation debate
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 105 of 687 (520898)
08-24-2009 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by lyx2no
08-24-2009 8:02 PM


Re: Getting Older
lyx2no,
have you ever touched a single proton, neutron or electron? Have you actually seen one without the aid of a tool?
Just so you know, I am only arguing this point because of your absolute sense on the notion that there is no tooth fairy..LOL.. My parents were my tooth fairy.. .. a long time ago.. lol..
----
Oh, I have never taken a philosophy lesson cept for the derails in other courses but thanks for the compliment.
----
Oh and your comment "MAKE SURE THE JAR IS RIGHT SIDE UP."
What is right side up? Are you the only normal person? Or is it that there is an average type that makes defines normality? LOL.. What if those schezpfrenick people are telling the truth...? Besides in science it takes a lot of ODD ideas to get a good theory.. I could go back to when they thought the earth was flat, or even prior to darwin and his idea of evolution... Or perhaps einstein and his idea of e = mc2...
... done derailing...
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : spel err
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : derail over... LOL

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by lyx2no, posted 08-24-2009 8:02 PM lyx2no has not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 112 of 687 (520916)
08-24-2009 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by ICANT
08-24-2009 10:36 PM


Re: Re; Scientific Evidence
ICANT,
ICANT writes:
God streaching out the universe accomplishes the same thing.
The issue is we ONLY have circumstantial evidence that GOD exists unless you're just simply assuming the GOD of the BIBLE created everything instead of giving the BIBLE a trial like u do Science. Why the double standard for Science? Why are you not picky about the Bible? You have to have READ something in the BIBLE that made you go HUH!!??? I wonder if you are one of those people that fail to see that they are products of the culture around them.. You do realize that a lot of the reason you think the way you do is because of your culture which can include your family... You should try to step back and be a little more objective...
ICANT writes:
I would like to have some evidence for that statement.
If you read the BB model you learn that there was an expansion which means the universe expanded from a point of already existing. The big bang model does not talk about a universe expanding from nothing but rather from something very small.. Read about singularities.
ICANT writes:
If expansion is true the universe is not infinite.
Since the universe is always expanding, for all intensive purposes, it is infinite in size because literally at every ms of time the size of the universe is different than the last.
ICANT writes:
Then explain how something can expand that does not exist.
The bb model is that the universe expanded from a singularity as mentioned above.
ICANT writes:
Are you saying redshift and mbr are not true?
I fail to see how you concluded this information but I am sure this question is leaeding somewhere because it obviously leads to me asking this question, so spit it out.. what is your point??
ICANT writes:
Well when your precious science discovered redshift and the mbr it proved that the statement made 2700 years ago actually happened.
Ok, if you're assuming there is a connection between the below quotes and the discovery of redshift and mbr you need to realize that is just simply a probability and no more than that. Coincidences happen every single day and to assume 1 or any of them to be linked in a divine way is nutz, trust me, been there.. MOVE ON.. ACCEPT the inevitable.. The Bible is simply just another divine claim no different than any other faith. I have evidence to support my claim, but do you? Perahaps u can't cope with the reality so u try to find ways to stick to the Bible.. You do realize that spirits and god/or gods can exist without the Bible right? You should try ghost hunting sometime.. .. (I know I just lost a lot of respect from those straight minded people.. LOL)
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isa 45:12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Edited by Sasuke, : error
Edited by Sasuke, : cleaning up a bit...
Edited by Sasuke, : error

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2009 10:36 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 115 of 687 (520993)
08-25-2009 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by ICANT
08-25-2009 1:37 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
ICANT,
you need to remember that there are a lot of scientific views out there just like there are a lot of religious views out there. The point with science is that it is built around observations that can be tested and verified not revelations that can't be verified and tested.
----
Hey icant here is a movie that sorta reflects my views in one way or another...
createauniverse
Edited by Sasuke, : add movie

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by ICANT, posted 08-25-2009 1:37 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by ICANT, posted 08-25-2009 3:23 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 127 of 687 (521068)
08-25-2009 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ICANT
08-25-2009 3:23 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
ICANT,
Im glad you finally understand the BB model a little bit better. The rest of your post I don't care to comment on...
Edited by Sasuke, : ..
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ICANT, posted 08-25-2009 3:23 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by cavediver, posted 08-26-2009 3:56 AM Sasuke has seen this message but not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 129 of 687 (521071)
08-25-2009 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by ICANT
08-25-2009 3:52 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
ICANT,
anything prior to the BB is speculative. The bb model is that the universe expanded(not created, just expanded, our universe has always existed is my understanding) and is still expanding. As for when time started, I think that was about 13.7b years ago. As for what was going on prior to time, that is speculative. Is it all one big universe or is it a multiverse??? I would not bother yourself with these questions until there is more information. You need to stop trying to prove the BIBLE it will not help your understanding.. You can't prove the BIBLE anyways.. Its really a vain attempt... YOU need to realize that...
Edited by Sasuke, : I was wrong...
Edited by Sasuke, : add so the post was not wasted..

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by ICANT, posted 08-25-2009 3:52 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 130 of 687 (521072)
08-25-2009 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by hooah212002
08-25-2009 4:10 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
Hooah212002,
It is my understanding that 13.7b years ago is simpy when time started in our universe. Space still existed in the singularity state, no? Whether or not there is a multiverse is still hypothetical, no?
Edited by Sasuke, : I was wrong...
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : error lol.. sorry for all the dang edits..
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by hooah212002, posted 08-25-2009 4:10 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Rahvin, posted 08-25-2009 8:04 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 134 of 687 (521113)
08-26-2009 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Rahvin
08-25-2009 8:04 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
Rahvin,
Ok, so essentially a singularity has no dimensions but it expanded into the universe that we live in today?
I think we need to open a thread on singularities..??
Edited by Sasuke, : add question
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : del
Edited by Sasuke, : clarity..

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Rahvin, posted 08-25-2009 8:04 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Rahvin, posted 08-26-2009 3:04 AM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 137 of 687 (521119)
08-26-2009 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Rahvin
08-26-2009 3:04 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
Rahvin,
Hmmph... So, essentially our universe has always been expanding even prior to T=0. T=0 meaning Time=0 or going back 13.7b years ago to 0?
Just don't respond if I am right. No need to waste a post.
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Rahvin, posted 08-26-2009 3:04 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by hooah212002, posted 08-26-2009 6:47 AM Sasuke has replied
 Message 140 by cavediver, posted 08-26-2009 7:27 AM Sasuke has seen this message but not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 139 of 687 (521138)
08-26-2009 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by hooah212002
08-26-2009 6:47 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
hooash212002,
So prior to T=0, hypothetically, a blackhole was feed to the point of explosion, which radiated energy causing a whitehole, which then in turn gave birth to our universe 13.7b years ago?

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by hooah212002, posted 08-26-2009 6:47 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by hooah212002, posted 08-26-2009 7:32 AM Sasuke has seen this message but not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 167 of 687 (521347)
08-27-2009 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by ICANT
08-26-2009 5:42 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
ICANT,
ICANT writes:
Which one existed first? Time or the Universe.
God did it... God existed prior to time and SPOKE hebulalala be donelalalalal and it was so....
If you don't understand that there is a current mathematical impossibility in relation to that question than you will never be able to understand how complicated that issue is.. I don't completely understand it and I am sure that people who are well versed in the field are having issues with it or we would know the mystery of the universe... I would say that the universe and time came into existence synchronously but then I think that would still imply a begining which is where the issue is... Then we go back to, where did that come from, over and over and over and over until the wheels fall off..
Edited by Sasuke, : del-add

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by ICANT, posted 08-26-2009 5:42 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by ICANT, posted 08-27-2009 12:57 PM Sasuke has seen this message but not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 180 of 687 (521486)
08-27-2009 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by cavediver
08-27-2009 3:31 AM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
cavediver,
I am only going to respond because I want to hear the response. When the beach ball is manufactured.

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by cavediver, posted 08-27-2009 3:31 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by cavediver, posted 08-27-2009 3:46 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 181 of 687 (521489)
08-27-2009 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by hooah212002
08-27-2009 1:29 PM


Re: Re:Math
hooah212002
math is an invention of man though which is no different than how language is a invention of man.. They are just different tools for communication... They are both symbolic..
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by hooah212002, posted 08-27-2009 1:29 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by hooah212002, posted 08-27-2009 3:49 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 184 of 687 (521499)
08-27-2009 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by cavediver
08-27-2009 3:46 PM


Re: Snatching Defeat from the jaws of Victory
cavediver,
I am not wanting to believe anything cept to find out all the different ideas out there.. I think in terms of probabilities.. I am leaning toward god because it is well easier but that does not mean I believe in god..

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by cavediver, posted 08-27-2009 3:46 PM cavediver has not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 186 of 687 (521504)
08-27-2009 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by hooah212002
08-27-2009 3:49 PM


Re: Re:Math
hooah212002,
I agree that chemical reactions have always occured. However, since the word math is a symbol and math its self is symbolic, "math" is an invention of man. Our math seems to be a bit off though hence the singularity issue. Eventually our math will change I THINK and so will all the text books... Keep in mind I think we are on the same page its just that there is a communication barrier and the words to explain our thoughts are lacking.

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by hooah212002, posted 08-27-2009 3:49 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by cavediver, posted 08-27-2009 4:28 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 196 of 687 (521553)
08-27-2009 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by cavediver
08-27-2009 4:28 PM


Re: Re:Math
cavediver,
This is a difficult concept for me to accept. On one hand I will agree that math in a sense has always existed, example h20 has 2 h and 1 0 to form a molecule of water, but this idea would also infer that there is an coherent intelligence behind the way the universe operates. On the other hand I would have to disagree because chemical reactions do not require there to be a mathematical understanding to symbolically represent them to man or anything else. On the hand where I disagree I will also have to say that math is purely a tool that is used by MAN to calculate and communicate information to MAN. So I think it is better understood to say that chemical reactions have always existed however man USES math to understand those chemical reactions. Hence a tool was created, "MATH" to better understand and account for information but also to communicate that information to people who can understand the "math"...
In short, it is an argument to say math has always existed, this concept is not a fact.
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

OPEN YOUR MIND!
Sasuke!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by cavediver, posted 08-27-2009 4:28 PM cavediver has not replied

  
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