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Author Topic:   Evangelical Indoctrination of Children
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 46 of 295 (523943)
09-13-2009 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by ochaye
09-13-2009 5:42 AM


ochaye writes:
quote:
So liars are acceptable, but those who tell the truth are sociopaths!
And we can determine that you're telling the truth because of what, precisely?
Two-thirds of the world think you're lying. Why should we believe you over them?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 5:42 AM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:34 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 47 of 295 (523946)
09-13-2009 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Rrhain
09-13-2009 4:11 PM


quote:
That there are intellectual aspects to faith doesn't change the fact that they're using emotional manipulation.
What if they are? Surely it's not breaking a commandment, whereas saying there is a hell and then denying it makes a mockery of this whole discussion, because people who do that can't be Christians.
But you lot don't give a damn. America has no shame: "I've got bullets, shells and rockets, I don't need moral authority, you fool!"
You guys can write all you like, but you count for nothing in the real world. You can fool yourselves that you do, I suppose. Dream on.
Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 4:11 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:44 PM ochaye has replied
 Message 59 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 5:14 PM ochaye has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 48 of 295 (523947)
09-13-2009 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Rrhain
09-13-2009 4:17 PM


quote:
And we can determine that you're telling the truth because of what, precisely?
With that scarce commodity, common sense. By checking the posts I commented on. It has been admitted that most who call themselves Christians tell lies. So they cannot be Christians. Surely it takes very little brain to work out that much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 4:17 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 295 (523949)
09-13-2009 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Rrhain
09-13-2009 4:11 PM


Instruction vs indoctrination
How does one "minister" without emotional manipulation to a child regarding something so significant as belief in god when they haven't even managed to acquire post-operative logic?
Fair enough, Rrhain, but in all fairness when does a parent or a teacher technically not indoctrinate a child? If young minds are generally impressionable, where lies the critical difference between instruction and indoctrination?
Parents inevitably rub off on their children and to some degree at least initially. Even if parents want their child to be free and independent critical thinkers and don't want to highly influence their children's beliefs, at some point the children are going to anyway.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 4:11 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by bluescat48, posted 09-13-2009 4:44 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 52 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:46 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 61 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 6:28 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 50 of 295 (523950)
09-13-2009 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Hyroglyphx
09-13-2009 4:41 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
where lies the critical difference between instruction and indoctrination?
When the child is told "This is the absolute truth, you cannot question it," as I was told at the age of 5.
Edited by bluescat48, : missing word.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:41 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM bluescat48 has replied
 Message 55 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 295 (523951)
09-13-2009 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:28 PM


You guys can write all you like, but you count for nothing in the real world. You can fool yourselves that you do, I suppose. Dream on.
Being condescending probably won't do much to win hearts to Christ!

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:28 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:47 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 52 of 295 (523952)
09-13-2009 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Hyroglyphx
09-13-2009 4:41 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
quote:
Even if parents want their child to be free and independent critical thinkers and don't want to highly influence their children's beliefs, at some point the children are going to anyway.
What the skeptical position amounts to on this issue, though I'm sure they mostly don't realise it, is that Christians shouldn't have children. A theme worthy of Herr Adolf indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:41 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 6:43 PM ochaye has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 53 of 295 (523953)
09-13-2009 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Hyroglyphx
09-13-2009 4:44 PM


quote:
Being condescending
Let us know if someone is that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:44 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:52 PM ochaye has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 54 of 295 (523954)
09-13-2009 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by bluescat48
09-13-2009 4:44 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
quote:
When the child is told "This is the absolute truth, you cannot question it," as I was told at the age of 5.
By a Christian, in your view?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by bluescat48, posted 09-13-2009 4:44 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 6:45 PM ochaye has not replied
 Message 66 by bluescat48, posted 09-13-2009 11:32 PM ochaye has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 295 (523956)
09-13-2009 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by bluescat48
09-13-2009 4:44 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
When the child is told "This is the absolute truth, you cannot question it," as I was at the age of 5.
So just as long as they can question what truth is, then someone can instruct and it would not be considered indoctrination?
That sounds more than reasonable, I would say.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by bluescat48, posted 09-13-2009 4:44 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by bluescat48, posted 09-13-2009 11:38 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 295 (523957)
09-13-2009 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:47 PM


Let us know if someone is that.
Duck, duck, goose!
Tag you're it!
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:47 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:54 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 57 of 295 (523958)
09-13-2009 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Hyroglyphx
09-13-2009 4:52 PM


Sounds like indoctrination, to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:52 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:56 PM ochaye has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 295 (523960)
09-13-2009 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:54 PM


Sounds like indoctrination, to me.
Good comeback... I like it!

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:54 PM ochaye has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 59 of 295 (523964)
09-13-2009 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:28 PM


ochaye responds to me:
quote:
quote:
That there are intellectual aspects to faith doesn't change the fact that they're using emotional manipulation.
What if they are?
That you don't understand why that is a bad thing is quite telling.
Playing off of the emotions of people, manipulating them into doing things they would not rationally do, is one of the slimier things that people do to each other.
quote:
whereas saying there is a hell and then denying it
Huh? Who is denying hell? You seem to think that because someone doesn't share your vision of what "hell" is, that means it is being denied.
You do understand the distinction between difference and denial, yes?
quote:
because people who do that can't be Christians.
Oh, so you've been given divine knowledge as to what it means to be a "true Christian"?
There are plenty of Christians who disagree with you. Why should we believe you over them?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:28 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 5:23 PM Rrhain has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 60 of 295 (523966)
09-13-2009 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Rrhain
09-13-2009 5:14 PM


quote:
That you don't understand why that is a bad thing is quite telling.
Is bad-mouthing with inventions the only tactic you have? It's getting boring.
quote:
Who is denying hell?
Read the thread before posting.
quote:
Oh, so you've been given divine knowledge as to what it means to be a "true Christian"?
So lying is ok? Most decent citizens don't think so.
If the sentences that contain the word 'you' in Rrhain's posts were to be snipped, would there be much left?
Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 5:14 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 6:53 PM ochaye has not replied

  
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