Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evangelical Indoctrination of Children
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 61 of 295 (523970)
09-13-2009 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Hyroglyphx
09-13-2009 4:41 PM


Hyroglyphx responds to me:
quote:
Fair enough, Rrhain, but in all fairness when does a parent or a teacher technically not indoctrinate a child? If young minds are generally impressionable, where lies the critical difference between instruction and indoctrination?
By allowing for the fact that said parent or teacher just might be wrong. By understanding that children are naturally like this and not exploiting it for their own purposes.
Just because someone is gullible doesn't mean you have to prey upon it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:41 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-14-2009 6:44 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 62 of 295 (523973)
09-13-2009 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:46 PM


ochaye writes:
quote:
What the skeptical position amounts to on this issue, though I'm sure they mostly don't realise it, is that Christians shouldn't have children.
Huh? Where on earth do you find anything even remotely approaching that?
Are you saying Christians are incapable of raising children without abusing them? You do understand that most skeptics were raised in households headed by religious people, yes?
Of course parents teach their children in their vision of ethics, morality, faith, etc., but when you know the child is incapable of questioning what you say, is dependent upon you for existence, and will do or say anything to please you, then you hold a great responsibility in your hands and you must tread carefully.
Do you really think an eight-year-old is in any position to shout at anybody regarding hell?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:46 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 7:18 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 63 of 295 (523974)
09-13-2009 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:48 PM


ochaye writes:
quote:
By a Christian, in your view?
"In your view"? Are you trying to tell us that you have divine powers to recognize who is and who is not a Christian?
You do know what the "no true Scotsman" fallacy is, yes?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM ochaye has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 64 of 295 (523976)
09-13-2009 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ochaye
09-13-2009 5:23 PM


ochaye responds to me:
quote:
Is bad-mouthing with inventions the only tactic you have? It's getting boring.
I'm sorry, was there a rebuttal in there somewhere? And all the more ironic, you're complaining about my not having a rebuttal. So rather than actually discuss the question at hand, you'd rather play a game of "Woe is me."
Get down off the cross, already. We need the wood.
Hint: You still show yourself to be incapable of understanding why emotional manipulation of a person incapable of granting consent, dependent upon the one "teaching" him, and in no position to contradict the authority is not exactly a "good" thing.
If it were anybody else, we'd call it "torture."
quote:
quote:
Who is denying hell?
Read the thread before posting.
Non sequitur. Please rephrase. Let's try it again, shall we?
Who is denying hell?
quote:
quote:
Oh, so you've been given divine knowledge as to what it means to be a "true Christian"?
So lying is ok?
Where is your evidence of lying? You have divine knowledge as to who is and who is not lying when it comes to the question of god's will?
quote:
If the sentences that contain the word 'you' in Rrhain's posts were to be snipped, would there be much left?
Oh, I see...when faced with the prospect of putting up or shutting up, it becomes extremely difficult to actually respond with anything coherent and thus an attempt to turn it around and cry about oppression and "ad hominem" attacks become the only defense left for the response that is made to me.
Will an answer to the questions be forthcoming or should we expect nothing but deflection and avoidance from now on?
Who is denying hell?
You have the ability to determine who is and who isn't a Christian? Why should we believe you over them?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 5:23 PM ochaye has not replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 65 of 295 (523981)
09-13-2009 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Rrhain
09-13-2009 6:43 PM


quote:
Are you saying Christians are incapable of raising children without abusing them?
There you are, Percy. Those evangelicals don't indoctrinate their children.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 6:43 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 66 of 295 (523988)
09-13-2009 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by ochaye
09-13-2009 4:48 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
By a Christian, in your view?
Let's see. It was in a Christian Church School. I guess that it would have been by a Christian, there is no evidence that the school was infiltrated by any other group.
Edited by bluescat48, : sp
Edited by bluescat48, : ditto

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ochaye, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 6:02 AM bluescat48 has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 67 of 295 (523989)
09-13-2009 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Hyroglyphx
09-13-2009 4:48 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
So just as long as they can question what truth is, then someone can instruct and it would not be considered indoctrination?
That is the point.
They told you what the "Truth" was. Whether it is or not is irrelevant, you could not question it. The point this is the truth, that's it, no questions allowed. That, in my book, is indoctrination.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-13-2009 4:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by slevesque, posted 09-14-2009 10:02 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 68 of 295 (524009)
09-14-2009 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by bluescat48
09-13-2009 11:32 PM


Re: Instruction vs indoctrination
quote:
It was in a Christian Church School.
How did you know that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by bluescat48, posted 09-13-2009 11:32 PM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 295 (524016)
09-14-2009 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Rrhain
09-13-2009 6:28 PM


Just because someone is gullible doesn't mean you have to prey upon it.
It seems like "preying" to you because you have an aversion towards it, but the people who are allegedly preying don't see it that way. That's the problem. The people telling their kids about the rapture think they are doing them a huge favor. People such as yourself, however, feel those people are causing tremendous harm.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Rrhain, posted 09-13-2009 6:28 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 6:50 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 156 by Rrhain, posted 09-18-2009 6:02 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 70 of 295 (524018)
09-14-2009 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Hyroglyphx
09-14-2009 6:44 AM


quote:
People such as yourself, however, feel those people are causing tremendous harm.
Why do they feel that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-14-2009 6:44 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-14-2009 9:24 AM ochaye has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 71 of 295 (524022)
09-14-2009 7:23 AM


Could we get back on topic?
This thread asks whether evangelical indoctrination during childhood is responsible for the uncompassionate, unempathetic and inflexible attitudes of adult evangelicals that they excuse by claiming that God makes the rules and they're just following them.
Please find other threads if you're not posting on this topic. Thanks.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 7:27 AM Percy has replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 72 of 295 (524023)
09-14-2009 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Percy
09-14-2009 7:23 AM


Re: Could we get back on topic?
Somebody must have asked a difficult question. Or two.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Percy, posted 09-14-2009 7:23 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Percy, posted 09-14-2009 7:53 AM ochaye has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 73 of 295 (524030)
09-14-2009 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by ochaye
09-14-2009 7:27 AM


Re: Could we get back on topic?
Hi Ochave,
Please stop posting one line messages. This is a discussion board, not a chat room.
If topics have emerged here that you would like to discuss but that do not fit into this particular thread, please propose new topics over at Proposed New Topics.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 7:27 AM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 8:37 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ochaye
Member (Idle past 5239 days)
Posts: 307
Joined: 03-08-2009


Message 74 of 295 (524034)
09-14-2009 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Percy
09-14-2009 7:53 AM


Re: Could we get back on topic?
quote:
Please stop posting one line messages. This is a discussion board, not a chat room.
So is it true that a one line message = chat?
Is the above chat?
Is this thread the Wonderland that Alice fell into?
Let's grow up, eh? Don't try to rescue other posters, Percy, you started an aggressive thread, you sowed the wind, and you don't like the consequences. So just wait for us to know how we know who Christians are (and Rrhain says it's not so easy), and why the concept of rapture is harmful. Both questions that are bang on topic, and ones that you should be interested in seeing the answers to; if not actually providing answers, which would be something unusual, from you. Why you jumped in when everyone else was on topic is a mystery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Percy, posted 09-14-2009 7:53 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by cavediver, posted 09-14-2009 8:50 AM ochaye has replied
 Message 86 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-14-2009 9:42 AM ochaye has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 75 of 295 (524035)
09-14-2009 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by ochaye
09-14-2009 8:37 AM


Re: Could we get back on topic?
ochaye, let's not beat around the bush - you are making yourself look like a complete twat. You are the one claiming that these various Christians mentioned are not in fact Christian. You have claimed that there is no such thing as an evangelical creationist. Well, I know personally several hundred who are, including senior members of the UK Evangelical Alliance. If you want to make these absurd claims it is up to you to provide your rationale, not for us to guess.
Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 8:37 AM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by ochaye, posted 09-14-2009 9:02 AM cavediver has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024