9/11: 8 10th anniversary

I don't think the Iraq War was justifiable, so the insinuations can end here. I'm simply pointing out that terror groups started long before this time.

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"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

What insinuations? Oni mentions invading Iraq, and you retort with Al-Qaeda operations. I simply ask why, when it is such obvious Bush administration bullshit. Wouldn't have thought you'd fall for that... Err, I think that could have something to do with US foreign policy perhaps predating our invasions of Iraq/Afghanistan. To be fair, you yanks are still rank amateurs at this. It will be a while before you can attain the masterful levels of shit-stirring us Brits perfected over a century ago.

If you follow the dialogue and the topic of discussion, we are talking about 9/11 and Al Qaeda which predates the Iraq War. Do you mind staying on topic since all three of us condemn the Iraq war? Congratulations, give the SAS my full regard.

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"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

Agreed. Playing the 'we invaded them, no they started terrorist attacks before we invaded them' game just takes us back further and further. Before too long we're talking about the UK invasion of Iraq in the 1940s (which ended in military occupation and a short lived regime change) and then we carry on back to Ottomans and Mamluks and the brazen theft of Kuwait from them by...oh yeah...us.They don't call it a circle of violence for nothing...

Imagine applying that rationale to WWII. Allied Forces in WWII should have never sent in the Royal or US Air Force in to Germany. I suppose they should have waited for more Blitzkrieg attacks by the Luftwaffe.What exactly would you agree with, strategically speaking? Because as history will agree, 7, 8, 9 attacks with no kind of retaliation except an embarrassing incident where a cruise missile was sent in to an asprin factory.So what kind of strategy would you suggest, if not an offensive strategy?Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

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"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

Iraq was bombing us? I missed that.I didn't say that war is avoidable, I implied that it was short sighted to merely stop the chain of blame at 'terrorist attacks over the past few decades'. Just like it would be short-sighted to lay the blame for WWII at Germany's feet rather than examining things like the Treaty of Versailles.

Hi Hyro,You seem to be in a non-listening/non-comprehension mode. Just to support Oni's and Rhavin's words:1. The "official" term is not "backlash," but rather "blowback.""Blowback is the espionage term for the violent, unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the civil population of the aggressor government."Blowback - Wikipedia(intelligenceOne example is when America fully supported the violent radical group Mujahadeen, which spawned Osama bin Laden, which then, of course, attacked the USA.2. After 9/11, the profoundly misinformed and apathetic American public meekly asked "why did the terrorists do such an act". The Bush jr. administration replied vapidly "because the terrorists hate our freedoms". 90% of uninformed Americans believed this childish explanation from the immoral simpleton in office.However, Bin Laden himself said the three ACTUAL reasons for 9/11 was:a. US military bases in Saudi Arabia that despoiled the holy land.
b. US support of Israel human rights violations against Palestinians that cause repression, torture and death.
c. The US supported sanctions against Iraq that murdered hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children in the 1990s.Like Bush jr., you need not invent reasons for 9/11, we know the reasons straight from Bin Laden's mouth.

Alas, the apple does not fall far from the tree.With hundreds of military bases around the world, the sun never sets on the Amerikan empire.Edited by dronester, : clarity

Don't most people with public relation issues tailor their public utterances for public consumption? I think bin Laden's reasons sound authentic, but I don't see how one can reasonably argue that we should accept everything people say at face value.--Percy

Yes, thank you, I misspoke. Precisely You're not understanding. The hatred for the West, in general, runs far deeper than one or two things. There are a myriad of reasons that all point to one central focal point, and that is our culture. What you fail to understand is you could cave in to all the demands, that is leave Saudi Arabia, leave Iraq, completely cut-off Israel, and it wouldn't matter at all because you can't really appease these guys unless you think exactly as they do. Yes, and I've quoted him on those reasons, all of which are more numerous than tired, over-played "blood-for-oil" mantras we hear. Those are catch phrases, not reasons.

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"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

Hi Percy,1. I am not advocating EVERYTHING that EVERYONE says.2. In this specific case, Bin Laden's utterances AND actions are entirely consistent.3. Do I detect you think there is another reason for 9/11 besides Bush's and Bin Laden's utterrances? If yes, please explain.

Hmmm. Interesting.To the roughly 25% of Americans who repeatedly voted Bush jr. into office and who believe America should conquer the world through military conquest, you may be right.For what it's worth, I am not part of that culture minority.ABE, I should add, about 25% vote republican, about 25% vote Democrat, and 50% don't vote at all. Ultimately, perhaps our culture is most accurately protrayed as apathetic.Edited by dronester, : clarity

I won't argue that point.

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"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

I have no opinion concerning whose take on bin Laden's motives is more accurate, but the argument that we know bin Laden's motives because he told us struck me as odd.Actually, the real reason I'm hassling you is because of your anti-Israel stance. --Percy

Hi Percy, Hmmm.To be clear, there are Israel soldiers who REFUSE to perform atrocities, oppression, torture, murder against Palestinian women and children. They often risk great consequences, including harsh prison sentences, to themselves. To those brave, moral, and courageous men and women, I give my highest acknowledgements. They are true heroes and I wish the world had more of them!How is that anti-Israel?There is another on-going Coffee House thread: Israel-Palestine: The One State Solution. I think Razd did an excellent job of summing up the middle east conflict. I encourage you to participate if you still find my or Razd's stance "anti-Israel".