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Author | Topic: Evangelical Indoctrination of Children | |||||||||||||||||||||||
slevesque Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
Funny how things turn out on this thread, since it wasn't even 6 months ago that Texas voted that every aspect of a scientific theory should be examined, and that the evolutionists down in the US complained heavily about it.
Wanting evolution to be taught as the truth, with no questions allowed, is also indoctrination as per your standard, no ?
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5265 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote: Science dos not recognise the concept of truth. It recognises what works. ET works. There is no competitor to it in science, and there has not been for over a century. End of story. If people want to discuss other ideas outside science lessons, that's fine, surely.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 8.0 |
But should we be discussing it at all? It looks slanderous, to me, and its worse because there is not a scrap of evidence offered, and no identification of who it is wants to scare people with hell. Percy has been asked to provide evidence, but he has ignored that request, and now, it appears, looks to suffocate legitimate questions. It's a disgrace to skepticism/atheism, if you did but realise it. Atheism will never be taken seriously like this. Quite to the contrary - you've been presented with several examples, including video evidence of Christians using scare tactics to gain converts or reinforce the convictions of the faithful. You've simply chosen to ignore those examples, and instead focused on one-line responses and repeating yourself ad nauseum. Your debate tactics remind me of Pee-Wee Herman: "I know you are but what am I" and "lalalalala, I can't hear you!" spring immediately to mind, with a healthy dose of broken record mixed in.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5265 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:I don't recall any examples. If post #7 is referred to, I did not, and will not get past the first two words. If dealing with evidence involves conceding that one is some lower form of life, it will have to go unobserved. Of course there are people in the USA who say all sorts of things and do all sorts of things, that the rest of the world thinks is crazy. There is no denying that. But whether one can say that they are evangelical is another thing altogether. There is a current fashion for calling onself evangelical- in many parts of the world, one can hardly get oneself street cred without doing so. Allegedly Christian people who, within living memory, would view evangelicals with undisguised contempt are now going under the same banner. So one must reckon with the possibility that many, if not most, who today self-identify as evangelicals are actually the enemies of evangelicalism. So whether these new species of evangelicalism are identifiable as genuine evangelicalism must be a a matter of sober examination. If this scrutiny is not made, one could make a completely false accusation, tarring evangelicalism with the same brush that properly applies to its enemies. The first task, it seems to me, is to reach a consensus about a definition of evangelicalism.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Your debate tactics remind me of Pee-Wee Herman: "I know you are but what am I" and "lalalalala, I can't hear you!" spring immediately to mind ochaye, in the very next post, writes: If post #7 is referred to, I did not, and will not get past the first two words. Once again Rahvin, your psychic powers are confirmed! Mutate and Survive "A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
Ok, so indoctrination cannot happen in science because science does not recognize the concept of truth ?
How do you reconcile this concept of science with the concept of logic, which involves determining true and false claims using logical reasoning ? I don't know if you see the problem here, but throw out the concept of truth in science, and you pretty much have to throw out logic also ...
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5265 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Logical truth is another case, that may have no relation to any other sort of truth. One may reach a 'true' logical conclusion that is based on premises that may be actually false. Science of course depends on logic, but does not recognise the category 'true' except in the logical sense, and ET is true in that sense. It fits the data. Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
This is of course redefining the terms, because you originally stated that science did not recognize the concept of truth.
ANd it would be interesting what these others sorts of truth are ...
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5265 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Truth in the sense you used.
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
I do not recognize that there are different sorts of truth, therefore logical truth was included in the sense of truth I used. This is why it would be pleasant to know the different sorts of truth you think exist.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5265 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Then please demonstrate your truth by the use of logic.
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4215 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Wanting evolution to be taught as the truth, with no questions allowed, is also indoctrination as per your standard, no ? Not as truth, but as the establshed robust theory it is as opposed to ID , which is nothing more that creation (the wolf ) in sheep's clothing (ID). Creation isn't science therefore doesn't belong in a science class. It has nothing to do with truth which is a relative term depending on who is using whatever as "The Truth." Edited by bluescat48, : typoooooo There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
this is what the texas board voted this april I think, which I was referring to earlier:
quote: I find absolutely nothing wrong with this statement, and I find it very healthy for the scientific intellectual development of children. But the NCSE and other such organisations were against it, driven by their fear of the 'creationist wolf'. The fact that this fear is legitimate or not is beside the question. the result, if we were to listen to the NCSE, would be a one way evolutionnary explanation of the facts, without being allowed for students to question it, either through logical reasoning or otherwise. I find that such a situation would be very much analog to the current one you are criticising here (the christian indoctrination). Because, I think we can agree that teaching children with the 'this is true' method is not the problem. The problem is when the children cannot question what you teach as being true.
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slevesque Member (Idle past 4666 days) Posts: 1456 Joined: |
My 'truth' is only the common definition that some things are either true or false, and that this can be determined from logical reasoning. Yo uare the one claiming that there are multiple sorts of truth, and for the third time already I have to ask you to provide other examples of truths ....
The existence of truth is an axiom of my position and of logical thinking. The reason for this is simple: I have to assume that it is true that I can deduce the existence of truth through logic in order to determine if it exists through logic. Trying to prove it becomes only begging the question.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5265 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote: quote:Please demonstrate by logic how things have turned out to be funny on this thread.
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