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Author | Topic: Evangelical Indoctrination of Children | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Whether Catholicism is Christianity, or, as the Reformers unanimously stated, antichristianity, is another debate. What is hardly debatable is that Catholicism pushed the fear of hell as its means of existence for a millennium, after the Reformation into modern times, and quite possibly still does in less developed countries, right now. It is somewhat absurd for any Catholic to express distaste for the concept of hell, when Catholicism itself could hardly exist without that concept. The absence of that belief in hell is one reason why Catholicism is dwindling. No-one should be in the smallest doubt that the Vatican would rapidly return to hellfire and alleged priestly absolution if it possibly could. quote:Check out your current Catechism, got up largely by your present leader, and I think you will have to agree that this is precisely what you are called upon to accept. It's just that sotto voce is the thing these days. People who rejoice in the thought of most of humanity being sent to hell are evidently ignorant of the view of Paul that the Christians' deity wants the death of no-one, and wants all to be saved. But then, in America, ignorance is almost de rigueur. Edited by ochaye, : Clarification
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Kitsune Member (Idle past 4300 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
I'm not a Catholic. I'm not even a Christian. Anyway, you seem to be sidestepping the main points of my original post. Any thoughts?
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:I beg your pardon. It must be because you sound like one. quote:I'm unaware of that. Please explain.
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Kitsune Member (Idle past 4300 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
Message 148
Second paragraph, in response to Percy's reiteration of the point of the thread: quote:
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote: Post #151: People who rejoice in the thought of most of humanity being sent to hell are evidently ignorant of the view of Paul that the Christians' deity wants the death of no-one, and wants all to be saved. But then, in America, ignorance is almost de rigueur. Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Hyroglyphx responds to me:
quote: You mean emotional manipulation of a person incapable of consent, is dependent upon the one "teaching" him, and in no position to question authority isn't "preying"? If it were anything else, we'd call it "torture."
quote: Of course not. That's because they don't trust other people to be able to make their own minds up. They feel the need to "save" people who might just think they don't need saving.
quote: Incorrect. Telling somebody about it is one thing. Manipulating them while doing it is something else. When was the last time you ever heard anybody preaching about the end of the world finish up the sermon with, "But I could easily be wrong"? "That's just me; your mileage may vary"? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.
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Kitsune Member (Idle past 4300 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
Maybe you can review the last few messages Ochaye and ask yourself if you are addressing what either Percy or I said. I think this conversation is lost somewhere in non sequitur-land.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Does that mean 'impossible to reply to'?
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
ochaye writes: Does that mean 'impossible to reply to'? I suggest you give Message 79 another look. --Percy
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
It is obvious that there is no reply possible. People who rejoice in the thought of most of humanity being sent to hell are evidently ignorant of the view of Paul that the Christians' deity wants the death of no-one, and wants all to be saved. But then, in America, ignorance is almost de rigueur. So the accusation made in the OP is actually absurd, because whoever takes the attitude that is alleged (and there has even now been no substantiation of that accusation, anyway) cannot be obedient to Paul, or to Jesus, who commanded his followers to love their enemies. If skepticism and atheism are to make any advance, if they are even to be taken seriously and avoid ridicule, they must be credible.
Edited by ochaye, : No reason given.
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Kitsune Member (Idle past 4300 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
OK I'm going to try to elucidate again. Percy's recent reminder of the topic here was:
quote: The very basic gist of my own reply, which you have ignored, is that fear is at the root of such beliefs and actions. It's the fear that causes people to find comfort in elitist groups which project their own undesirable qualities onto others. This includes racists. Do you have an opinion on this? All you're doing is repeating your belief that God wants people to be saved. The problem is that the fundamentalists under discussion here believe that this can only happen if you become a fundamentalist yourself. A common tactic used to "save" people is to threaten them with hell. What's more, your attempts to paint yourself as someone who has compassion toward the "unsaved" ("love your enemies") is contradictory to opinions you expressed earlier in this thread:
Message 15quote: Message 17quote: I double-dog-dare you to put some thought into your next response, stay on topic, and write more than 2 or 3 sentences.
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greyseal Member (Idle past 3861 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
But to be back on topic, I really think the 'children camp' thing will become a dead-end, since atheists have equally started their own children camps. They even 'debaptized' kids of 9 years old. Oh noes, atheists are doing the same thing that theists have been doing, but in reverse!!!!111oneoneoneeleventyone er...well not quite. The biblecamps are several weeks of intensive fire and brimstone fed to kids when they are away from their parents and at their most vulnerable - this is their reason d'etre, to "save" sinners from hellfire. The atheist camps seem to be a lot less of the fire and brimstone because they don't believe in it. What can you do, threaten a kid with NOT going to hell? Oh my, deary deary me. I do not believe any atheist camp has debaptized any children (proof please, and not just accusations from the pages of aig), nor do I believe that any atheist would want to do something like that - it goes against everything atheists stand for, which is self-exploration and choice. They're likely to hold up certain differing information and say "here's what I believe", but they won't be calling religious people "idiots" to children. Even PZ had a catholic child on student exchange stay with him, and did nothing more egregious to her faith than not go into the church with her. Of course, I'm one of those awful, evil agnostic/atheists so I'm liable to be lying through my teeth and have a debaptism mill set up in my underground sweatshop, amirite?
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote:Can we see some detail about this, please? Who runs these camps, and where? Is there evidence of 'several weeks of intensive fire and brimstone' that we can inspect for ourselves? The concept of this experience in today's world may well seem as unlikely as can be imagined to Europeans and others.
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greyseal Member (Idle past 3861 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
Can we see some detail about this, please? Sure! Try: Error 404 (Not Found)!!1# and there are several (although the whole video is gone). If you think this is the only one, then I'd have to go collect a whole lot more "evidence" that you could probably still call "circumstantial" and "not indicative". Can I have even one forced debaptism video in return? JW's baptism of the dead doesn't count.
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ochaye Member (Idle past 5239 days) Posts: 307 Joined: |
quote: Thanks. I think. I couldn't stand it for long. Now my question is, is that Christianity, or something else?
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