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Author Topic:   Can ToE explain human Brain development?
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 9 of 47 (529705)
10-10-2009 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Peg
10-10-2009 4:44 AM


Human Brain development
This brings us back to my earlier question, Why does the human brain have such a vast intellect? What purpose does it serve in evolutionary terms.
You do raise some good points, Peg, but keep in mind that it's only been recently that the technology has advanced far enough for researchers to really begin to understand the brain. As we learn more about the brain and its functions, more answers will be forthcoming.
As of right now, one theory on the evolution of the human brain is that it was not a gradual process; rather, the brain rapidly evolve. While brain size has tended to increase overall, there were selective pressures for humans to evolve a larger, stronger brain. One pressure might have been the development of human society in that, the more complicated human society become, the greater the pressure for a larger brain.
But while humans have the largest brain relative to body size of all mammals, that doesn't mean that other mammals do not have similar capabilities that humans have. Chimps have been known to plan, use tools, communicate with each other and even use sign language, etc. Although their own brains could be considered more primitive than ours, chimps do possess similar abilities that once were only accorded to humans and that is not surprising considering the two chimp species are the closest living relative to Homo Sapiens.
Likewise, there are birds that can mimic human speech patterns, mammals that have a rudimentary memory system, etc. The key to remember is that while there are species that are capable of specific abilities associated with humans, there was never a selective pressure to develop those abilities.
Bear in mind that since research into the brain, and more specifically the genetics and functionality of the human brain, has only recently begun, there will not be any satisfactory answers for you for some time to come.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Peg, posted 10-10-2009 4:44 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Peg, posted 10-10-2009 8:16 AM Izanagi has replied

  
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 17 of 47 (529729)
10-10-2009 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Peg
10-10-2009 8:16 AM


Re: Human Brain development
this in itself is completely contrary to how evolution predicts changes isnt it?
While there is no debate among most scientists that evolution has occurred and is still occurring now, the mechanisms for evolution are still being researched. It was originally thought that evolution was a gradual process, but there is some thinking that species generally evolve in shorter bursts rather than gradually. But the time period involved is still on the scale of thousands, if not millions, of years. Evolutionary theory in its basest form only predicts that changes will occur over time. Everything else, from punctuated equilibrium to neutral theory, only adds substance to the Theory. But to prove Evolution wrong requires proving that no changes can occur to organisms.
Thus, having the brain rapidly evolve in a time period of several millions of years does not run counter to the basic prediction of Evolution, which is that if there is a selective pressure for humans with bigger brains to be more fit than those with smaller brains, then brain size will change.
What researchers are currently working on are what those selective pressures are that selected for a human with a bigger brain. But one idea is that because humans lack any sort of physical advantage in the wild, it was the mental advantage that the ancestors of the modern human relied upon. Improved communication, thinking in complex ways, imagination - all served to enable our hominid ancestors to think about the world, consider what they have seen, and use that resulting knowledge to give them an advantage they would not normally have and to pass on that knowledge. One could say that human frailty was the driving force behind the evolution of the human brain. But that is, of course, speculation.
its true that other animals have some intelligence, but unlike animals, we have the free will to program our intellects as we choose, based on our own knowledge, values, opportunities and goals. They seem to be confined in their ability to learn new things...and mostly it seems they are programmed for life. I would like to see some research articles on that one if you know any.
I'm not too certain what you mean when you say we have the free will to program our intellects as we choose. Perhaps if you provided several different examples of this, it would serve to clear up my confusion.
Just in case I do understand what you mean, I would point out once again to our cousins, the chimp. Contrary to what people may believe, chimps are capable of feeling emotions, they form friendships and perform actions to maintain or strengthen those friendships, chimp parents form a lifelong relationship with their offspring, chimps will care for their young, chimp young learn about the world around through play as human infants do, they can use tools and not only that, but are capable of picking the right tool for the job and learn to create their tools by watching others, chimp males will often share their food as a means of placating enemies or winning allies or even gaining sexual favors, etc. Check this site out for more information on chimps. As you can see, many behaviors normally associated with humans can also be found in chimps. Consider gifts of food to your allies as something similar to how humans give gifts to friends, or giving food for sexual favors is similar to a man paying for the date during the human courting process. The similarities between chimps and humans speak volumes about how humanity, while having a bigger, more complex brain than all other animals, is not alone in being able to evolve such a brain. The similarities between chimps and humans also give credence to the theory that humans and chimps once shared a common ancestor. All that separated the development of the human brain versus the chimp brain is that there was a selective pressure on humans to want a bigger brain.
Also, it is Izanagi, with a G.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Peg, posted 10-10-2009 8:16 AM Peg has not replied

  
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


(1)
Message 31 of 47 (529902)
10-11-2009 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Peg
10-10-2009 10:31 PM


Re: Associative Memory
i didnt say this mechanism is limited to humans. I said the mechanism is 'limitless' in humans.
I would like to see a site that says human memory is limitless.
Before I address your point on memory, once again I would like to mention that research into human memory is ongoing and that much of what we have learned are from memory disorders.
That said, long term memory storage relies on new protein construction. As you put new things into long term storage, new proteins are formed and a cellular process occurs, where certain things are inhibited. But as new memories are formed, old memories are deleted to make room for new long term memories. That's why constantly thinking about something reinforces those particular connections while not thinking about something causes the memory to degrade.
This site has some information if you like to read them and links to other sites too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Peg, posted 10-10-2009 10:31 PM Peg has not replied

  
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 5216 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


(1)
Message 36 of 47 (530024)
10-11-2009 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by bluegenes
10-11-2009 2:06 PM


Re: Killing hypothesis of intelligence?
The tool use doesn't apply to dolphins, of course, so perhaps communication in social animals is the all important key, and the reason why wolves/dogs are smarter than the solitary cats.
There is an argument for that. Whales and dolphins have the second "largest" brains next to humans and we know that whales and dolphins have a complex social system. The argument that increasingly complex social systems within a population require an increasingly complex brain is one that has merit considering whales and dolphins and the primates split further in the past than the human/great ape split.
Then there's the argument for diet. As humans went hunting for food along the shorelines, the nutrient rich diet allowed pregnant females to have babies with larger reserves of baby fat, apparently a uniquely human trait. Additionally, a shoreline diet has nutrients rich in promoting brain function. For instance, a deficiency of iodine in the diet can result in mental slowing in humans and mental retardation in children.
The truth is, while human knowledge on the brain is still incomplete, what we can surmise is that there was a complex interaction of variables that gave the earliest human ancestors the opportunity to evolve a larger brain. Understanding those variables will probably rely on what genetics discovers in the coming years.
As a side-note, it would be a interesting case study to take some chimps and put them into a similar environment that we think the earliest human ancestors were in. Perhaps we could feed chimps a shoreline diet, take away the advantage of trees, as well as other things. Could humans, by doing this, eventual evolve a new sapient species? Would "Planet of the Apes" be prophetic?
Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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This is very similar to the suggestion put forward by the Quirmian philosopher Ventre, who said, "Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?" When he died he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, "We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts..." - Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by bluegenes, posted 10-11-2009 2:06 PM bluegenes has not replied

  
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