Hi Buzsaw,
Buzsaw writes:
The water to ice model pertains to chemical only process, as I understand it. Is that correct? Can a chemical only process adequately model chemical to life process? Isn't that a stretch?
I would argue that life is a chemical process. What else is your body but a complex chemistry kit?
Buzsaw writes:
1. Nor did I argure that inorganic compounds suddenly turned into organic ones. It allegedly took, perhaps as long as billions of years, unless I'm mistaken.
2. I see the #1 online dictionary defines organic as living matter. However the #7 chemical definition is as you say, i.e. carbon compounds. Therefore I concede that I used the wrong application to inorganic. (In the Wiki link you cited, the term inorganic was used relative to abiotic molecules, citing a Martin-Russell paper. )
Fair enough. When we're talking about chemistry we usually use the term "organic" to refer to carbon compounds. In that sense, life did not evolve from inorganic matter (it might possibly have used inorganic matter as a vehicle, more on that in the wiki article).
Buzsaw writes:
Logically, and as I understood one of your earlier statements, entropy pressure would be greater relative to replicating abiotic chemicals than to replicating living organisms.
I'm not aware of the term "entropy pressure". Entropy applies to everything, including life. Life is a subjective definition of chemical processes. There is nothing qualitatively different about simple replicating molecules and living organisms. Did you read the link I gave you about the experiment with the virus?? Essentially, the 220 nucleotide genome wasn't much more than a simple replicating molecule. Wouldn't you hesitate to call it life? What's so different about a naked viral genome and a simple replicating molecule? (They're really the same thing)
Buzsaw writes:
Citing exerpts from your Wiki link, it appears that abiogenesis is based on various non-imperical postulations:
quote:
There is no truly "standard model" of the origin of life.
This is true. But why exactly is this a problem? If there are hundreds of different possible models and we just can't know for certain which one it actually was, isn't the problem too much possibility??
quote:
While features of self-organization and self-replication are often considered the hallmark of living systems, there are many instances of abiotic molecules exhibiting such characteristics under proper conditions. For example Martin and Russel show that physical compartmentation by cell membranes from the environment and self-organization of self-contained redox reactions are the most conserved attributes of living things, and they argue therefore that inorganic matter with such attributes would be life's most likely last common ancestor.
*Scratches head* Well that explains why you used the term inorganic matter. Don't expect wikipedia to be without its typos and little errors. Considering the fact that even Donald Duck could log on to it and edit a scientific article, it's amazing it stays as accurate as it is.
I'm not sure why you gave me that exerpt though. It seems to make a fairly good case for the development of self-replicating molecules.
quote:
The question "How do simple organic molecules form a protocell?" is largely unanswered but there are many hypotheses. Some of these postulate the early appearance of nucleic acids ("genes-first") whereas others postulate the evolution of biochemical reactions and pathways first ("metabolism-first"). Recently, trends are emerging to create hybrid models that combine aspects of both....
Unfortunately we can't build a time-machine and actually watch the formation of early biotic molecules (even though we do get them in the lab). In cases like this it is intellectually honest to say "I don't know" and not make assertions about the exact mechanism life originated by. We can make guesses, and good ones at that, but we can't be sure exactly how life formed. If you want certainty, stick with creationists. They're the only ones who "know" exactly how it happened. (Down to the exact hour in some cases)
Respectfully,
-Meldinoor