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Author Topic:   Is God Evil?
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 132 of 179 (533988)
11-04-2009 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Peg
11-04-2009 5:27 AM


Peg writes:
God would have certainly gave A&E the right direction had they asked for it
Is that what you tell your dead child after he walks in front of a speeding car?

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Peg, posted 11-04-2009 5:27 AM Peg has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 154 of 179 (534119)
11-05-2009 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Peg
11-04-2009 11:51 PM


Adam was a man proably older then yourself. He was over 100 years old when he was expelled from Eden. So he lived long enough to know that snakes, which he himself named, didnt talk. The fact is that Adam was not decieved by the snake.
Where in the Bible does it say Adam was over 100 years old when he was expelled? Are you sure you are not making this up?

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Peg, posted 11-04-2009 11:51 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Peg, posted 11-05-2009 6:28 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 165 of 179 (534136)
11-05-2009 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Peg
11-05-2009 6:28 AM


Peg writes:
But if you think about it, If the 3rd son was born when Adam was 130yrs of age, and he didnt have any children until he left the garden of Eden, so he must have been at least 100 when he left the garden
That is an baseless assumption. The Bible does not say how old Adam and Even where when they had Cain and Able or hold they where when they were supposedly expelled from Eden.
How do you know Adam and Even were not 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, etc years old when they had children. You have no way of proving this.
This is typical groundless speculation on the same lines of Ussher's widly speculative fabrication that God created the universe nightfall preceding Sunday October 23, 4004 BC and Dr. John Lightfoot estimation that Creation began at 9am October 23, 4004 B.C.
this is pure speculation
This is the only part I agree with you on.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Peg, posted 11-05-2009 6:28 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Peg, posted 11-05-2009 11:47 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 170 of 179 (534233)
11-06-2009 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Peg
11-05-2009 11:47 PM


Me writes:
How do you know Adam and Even were not 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, etc years old when they had children.
Peg writes:
The account says they had intercourse AFTER they left the garden and cain was born.
Yes, but the Bible does not say how old they were when they left Eden. You are totally fabricating an age to justify your baseless claim.
We know that Seth came immediatiatly after Able becasue in Genesis 4:25 its says that after the death of Able, Eve had another son whom she said was appointed in place of Able.
I am not arguing against this. I am asking why are you fabricating an age for when they left Eden. It is total conjecture.
For arguments sake im willing to say that they were 50 when they left Eden.
Where the heck did you pull up 50 years? Do you just make this shit up as you go?
Peg writes:
They had no children in Eden so Cain was born when Adam was maybe 52 yrs old. There are 80 years before Seth the 3rd son is born as Genesis says Adam was 130yrs old.
?? Where the heck did you get these numbers from? The only figure the Bible speaks of is that Seth is born when Adam was 130 years old.
Now how likely is it that out of all the children they could have had in 80 years, only 3 were male?
You are not very good with logic are you Peg. Let's analyze this shall we.
The average ratio for having boys and girls is roughly 51% boys to 49% girls as seen by a number of different studies (these two were was interesting: The Odds of Having a Boy or a Girl and Why do some families have all boys or all girls?). This percentage does not change with the number of children you have. That is with each birth the chance of having a boy or girl is nearly 50/50 (a flip of coin). Even if you look at the world population there is only a 0.8% difference between the number of males and the number of females in the world.
Furthermore, there are 8 possible outcomes for having 3 children (23=8):
B=Boy / G=Girl
BBB, GGG, BBG, BGB, BGG, GBB, GBG, GGB
Therefore the chances of having 3 boys back to back is 1/8 or 12.5% which is not very difficult odds.
However, we are not even 100% from the Biblical account that Adam and Even did not have other children inbetween Cain and Abel and their son Seth.
Its highly unlikely that all the other children were girls.
The Bible only mentions the firstborn male children to show a line of descendancy. Since Abel was killed and Cain was banished, Seth became that first-born for all intensive purposes. As to how many children and of what sex the other children Adam and Eve later had, the Bible is mute. So you have no clue how many children they had after Cain and Abel and before Seth or after Seth and what sex they were.
So stop making shit up.
And in 80 years he could have had 40 children, thats 1 every 2 years.
I give up. Just make the Bible say whatever you want it to say.
And you wonder why many of us are no longer religious. You argue against one of the most proven scientific theories in history accepted by well over 99% of all scientists worldwide and with mountains of emperical evidence and over 100 years of research and then you willy-nilly lie and fabricate out of thin air justifications, baseless claims for your made up religion. You even make up claims that even your very own religious book does not state. Amazing!

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Peg, posted 11-05-2009 11:47 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by AdminPD, posted 11-06-2009 5:43 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied
 Message 173 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 7:04 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3127 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 174 of 179 (534243)
11-06-2009 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by Peg
11-06-2009 7:04 AM


let me put it simply. If Adam was 130 years old when they had Seth, and Seth was the first male after the death of Able, then why is it impossible that Adam could have been over 100 years old when he left Eden?
I never said it was impossible. I said it is unsubstantiated meaning we have no clue based on what is given in Genesis 1-5.
Do you really think that in 30 years, Adam and Eve only had 3 children?
What 30 years are you talking about? All it mentions is in Genesis 5 is that after Adam lived 130 years before he had Seth.
Do you really think that in 30 years, Adam and Eve only had 3 children?
Who knows? Maybe. Again it is pure speculation.
You made the statement, I quote "He was over 100 years old when he was expelled from Eden."
To me this tells me you are making a hard and fast statement. However, I will acquisce for the sake of not dragging this thread further off topic.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 7:04 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 11:00 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
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