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Author Topic:   Moon - Water - Life?
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 1 of 7 (535285)
11-14-2009 11:14 AM


Water found on the moon!
I'm currently assuming that this is not one of those over-hyped scientific discoveries and that this is actually true. Please correct this asap if you know differently.
Fact: Everywhere on planet earth where there is water, there is life. Generally just small water-dwelling bacteria or whatever is in water... but there's always life wherever we find water. Boiling water near ocean-covered volcanoes? Life. Frozen water in the deep antarctic? Life.
Next big question: Does life, therefore, exist on the moon?
Does it mean anything to some religious factions if life exists on the moon? Implicating that Earth is not "special" and that, obviously, God left out some rather important life-creation events on other heavenly bodies from the Bible. Therefore, perhaps God left out quite a few other important things from the Bible? Or, maybe, the Bible is therefore not divinely inspired?
Does it mean anything to some non-religious factions if life does not exist in water on the moon? Implicating that perhaps the earth is the only place where life exists within the universe. Therefore lending credence in some way to the Bible being closer to the truth?
For me, finding water on the moon doesn't affect my theology or spiritual life in any way. I think it's very interesting, and I'm very curious to know whether or not there is any life there at all. Perhaps even just some indication that there was some life there at some point in the past. In finding no life whatsover, it would simply imply to me that "pure" water is able to exist naturally in this universe. Such a fact doesn't add any truth to Christianity or any other specific religion, as far as I can tell.
Not sure where to put this.
I think there's more discussion than the News forum can support.
I'm guessing at Social Issues or maybe Faith and Belief?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Otto Tellick, posted 11-14-2009 2:01 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 5 by ZenMonkey, posted 11-14-2009 2:32 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 7 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 11-15-2009 6:18 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 7 (535295)
11-14-2009 1:01 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Moon - Water - Life? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Otto Tellick
Member (Idle past 2331 days)
Posts: 288
From: PA, USA
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 3 of 7 (535301)
11-14-2009 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
11-14-2009 11:14 AM


This is just a spontaneous "knee-jerk" response with no evidence or expertise to back it up, but...
I recall hearing an account that the moon may be (at least in part) a portion of the earth that was knocked loose by an impact with some other large body during an early period in the solar system. If that's what happened, then the transfer of material from earth to moon is likely to have included some water, and depending on when that impact occurred, relative to the initial appearance of life on earth, the water may have contained some biotic material, which might have survived the event and the subsequent absence of atmosphere, ambient temperature, and other earth-specific properties.
Even if that turns out not to be a correct account of the moon's origin, it's still bound to be very enlightening to figure out the source that lunar water comes from, and it would be well worthwhile to look closely and see whether there's anything biological in that water.
If it contains no life, that's instructive in itself, and any non-religious perspective on the issue would be enriched by having this additional useful data, which leads to valuable subsequent questions, like "what, besides water, is needed for life?" Knowing what is present on earth but lacking on the moon will yield progress. (But obviously, the presence of life there would lead to a far more stimulating and challenging pursuit of the new questions this would raise.)
As for the impact of any sort of lunar life form on popular religious beliefs, well... believers will accommodate (or warp) the new facts and/or their existing theologies in order to arrive at some sort of amalgam -- or not -- the same as they would treat any other objectively established facts.

autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

This message is a reply to:
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Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 7 (535303)
11-14-2009 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Otto Tellick
11-14-2009 2:01 PM


From what I recall of that theory both the Earth and moon were rendered completely molten by the impact. (Obviously, since they both ended up round.) It is doubtful that any intact biological material would survive such conditions. Water is all over the place in the universe, so there not being water on the moon would be much more significant. For instance, Earth is hit by icy meteorites almost every day, so one would expect the moon to receive similar treatment.
As for the religious aspect, the lack of effect finding life on the moon would have on religious faith brings up the question of what *would* affect religious faith. If there is no situation that would cause a believer to stop believing then faith becomes more of a condition than a conclusion.

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ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 4511 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 5 of 7 (535304)
11-14-2009 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
11-14-2009 11:14 AM


Two points occur to me.
1. Water is absurdly common in the solar system. Liquid water seems limited to Earth, but H2O appears to be out there in significant amounts. (Here's a quickie source.) So the mere presence of water in some form on the moon may not signify too much in itself.
2. While water may be a necessary condition for life, it doesn't at all follow that water is a sufficient condition for life. The moon may or may not have water on it, but it certainly seems to be lacking in other elements necessary for life to emerge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stile, posted 11-14-2009 11:14 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

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Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 7 (535331)
11-14-2009 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ZenMonkey
11-14-2009 2:32 PM


ZenMonkey writes:
Liquid water seems limited to Earth, but H2O appears to be out there in significant amounts.
Your source conveniently skips Saturn's moon Europa, which has a thin atmosphere composed mostly of oxygen and significant indications of a liquid ocean under its icy crust. Tidal flexing could maintain volcanic vents leading to life similar to what lives around oceanic vents on Earth.
ZenMonkey writes:
While water may be a necessary condition for life, it doesn't at all follow that water is a sufficient condition for life. The moon may or may not have water on it, but it certainly seems to be lacking in other elements necessary for life to emerge.
Necessary for life as we know it. There may be living things out there that do not require water to live, or are comfortable in conditions in which our life cannot function.
In any case, I believe the significance of the discovery is that it makes a moon base that much easier to bring about. A base will need a water supply, and the more materials you can get at your destination the less you have to bring with you.

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Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 7 of 7 (535364)
11-15-2009 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
11-14-2009 11:14 AM


Hi Stile
The story is confirmed on NASA's website (in fact I think the article in your link is copied directly from NASA's site).
It seems that these are very strong but preliminary indications, and it will doubtlessly take a while for the full picture to emerge that indicates how much water is on the Moon and where it is located.
As Phage0070 says, H2O is know to be abundant in the universe, so the discovery of water on the Moon is not remarkable in itself, and I can't see that it suddenly changes anything regarding the possibility of life elsewhere. However, it is of great interest in respect to how the Moon and Earth were formed and to the possibilities of using that water as a resource.

This message is a reply to:
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