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Author Topic:   Does the Book of Mormon contradict the Bible?
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 207 of 352 (534940)
11-11-2009 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by ochaye
11-11-2009 8:34 PM


Re: The gospel of Christ
Most people in the USA have heard the gospel
Which gospel?
The one that says if you say a particular invitation prayer and are really sincere about it and believe it, then you're good to go for all eternity?
Or the one that says that if you accept the dictates of the ordained clerical hierarchy "in good faith" and participate in the salvific process supplied by your church then you will be given the benefit of the doubt and let into the kingdom via a loophole?
Or the one that says "you must be born again" means that it will take many many lifetimes for you to become pure enough to move on to a higher plane of existence?
Or the good news that god is dead and we don't have to live in fear of him jumping out of the closet and catching us having fun anymore?
Most people in the USA have heard a lot of contradictory stuff, and it looks like some of them go with the bit that lets them have several wives (like Abraham) rather than the bit that says they have to have short hair and not drink (like nobody in the Bible.)
The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't.
--Principia Discordia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by ochaye, posted 11-11-2009 8:34 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by ochaye, posted 11-12-2009 7:01 AM Iblis has replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 231 of 352 (535068)
11-12-2009 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by ochaye
11-12-2009 7:01 AM


Re: The gospel of Christ
Well, well.
Why are you dodging this question? Faith vs Works vs Some Other Method isn't a new debate, it goes back as far as Paul and James at least. This has been pointed out to you repeatedly, but you don't seem willing to support your answer. You won't reconcile the scriptures that have been quoted for you, you won't quote scriptures of your own, you just assert baldly that everyone knows something they obviously don't know, or they wouldn't have been arguing about it for thousands of years, would they?
This sort of conflict is exactly why it seems logical to some folks that any decent God would clear up such confusions, perhaps by producing yet another testament along the lines of the Book of Mormon.
people like Iblis
Yeah, I'm a sinner, so what? So were Paul and James.
Erasmus and Origen were both wicked heretics, but you wouldn't have the provincial doctrines you assert "everyone knows" if they hadn't done all the legwork for the more conservative theologians that followed them.
Argue the points, not the persons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by ochaye, posted 11-12-2009 7:01 AM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by ochaye, posted 11-12-2009 6:06 PM Iblis has replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 233 of 352 (535147)
11-13-2009 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by ochaye
11-12-2009 6:06 PM


Socrates In Hell
What does one believe in to be saved?
Salvation, to start with. That you don't have it, that you need it, that you can get it.
Then secondly, a method of salvation, a process. These differ from church to church, but can loosely be split into two groups, and qualified as real or imaginary.
If you believe that salvation is something that only involves the world inside you (i e is imaginary) then it follows that you can get it simply by believing things. These tend to consist of tenets, often organized into a creed and/or expressed as a prayer.
On the other hand, if you believe that salvation in some sense involves the world outside you (i e is real) then it follows that in order to get it you are going to have to actually do something!
So, which is it? Is your faith real? (alive)
In which case, it's going to necessarily include works.
Or, is your faith imaginary? (DEAD)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by ochaye, posted 11-12-2009 6:06 PM ochaye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by ochaye, posted 11-13-2009 6:50 AM Iblis has replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 235 of 352 (535153)
11-13-2009 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by ochaye
11-13-2009 6:50 AM


Re: Socrates In Hell
... ?
Nope, no more pointy questions from you until you answer all the questions you've been asked.
I swear, I could write a bot that would do this whole trick for you, you wouldn't have to type at all. A begging-the-question bot.
Look, you don't contradict the Bible, do you? (How could you if you don't make any clear assertions?) So then, what do we need you for?
* Socrates is in hell right now, praying for icewater.
He isn't being coy about it either, saying "What might be, a liquid substance, that you might give me, that could quench my thirst?"
He's going PLEASE PLEASE GOD GIMME SOME MOTHERFUCKING WATER PLEASE !!!
But, he still doesn't get any ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by ochaye, posted 11-13-2009 6:50 AM ochaye has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 256 of 352 (535334)
11-14-2009 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by ICANT
11-14-2009 7:26 PM


Re: What must I do ? BELIEVE
Now you tell me how you could receive it if you did not believe God existed and would give you the gift?
Same way he does everything else. Quietly, without leaving any fingerprints, like a thief in the night. You'd just reach into your pocket, and find a twenty. Amazingly. And if you asked the scientists about it, they would say "Yeah, these things happen."
He gave you your pancreas as a free gift didn't he? And you didn't have to go through any rote actions or mental gymnastics to get that one, at all.
Edited by Iblis, : deceased statesmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by ICANT, posted 11-14-2009 7:26 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 331 of 352 (536147)
11-20-2009 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by iano
11-20-2009 4:45 AM


petty petty petty
A quick perusal of the thread title will reveal our task.
Dude, he isn't really in this thread. You are giving him too much credit, you think he has free will and independent thought invested in this. That's not what is happening at all.
He is working one of those "Fitty Questions ta Axe a Mormon" lists.
And we were just going all to hang out to eat some ice cream and so we’re are sitting [and] just got our ice cream, and two LDS missionaries walk in. One of the teens with me [said] Well I’m gonna go and share my faith with them. So he goes up and starts dialoging with these missionaries. And he just kept on giving them question after question after question talking and asking them about what they believe. And in the process I noticed the LDS missionary kind of pausing and just kind of looking at the guy more and more intent. And finally toward the end of the conversation the LDS missionary turned to the Christian teen and said You know, I don’t think you care about me a bit. Every time I answered one of your questions, you were in the process thinking of the next question to ask me. You are not even listening to my answer. And that teen has never forgot that.
Private Site
Oh and also, just to stay on topic
In the opening chapters of the Book of Mormon, Nephi laments that the prophet Jeremiah has been cast into prison[36], sometime before the 8th year of the reign of Zedekiah.[37] However, according to the Bible, Jeremiah was not imprisoned until the 10th year of the reign of Zedekiah.[38]
Historicity of the Book of Mormon - Wikipedia
Guess that settles it, the jig is up! Time to overturn all those sporting victories. Tear down all those hospitals and schools and libraries. Annul the marriages, reverse the statehood, resettle New York.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by iano, posted 11-20-2009 4:45 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by iano, posted 11-20-2009 6:30 AM Iblis has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 349 of 352 (536557)
11-23-2009 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Blue Jay
11-23-2009 7:25 PM


sign, sign, everywhere a sign
You forgot your blue shirt today? Oh... that’s too bad for you.
Haw, I'm starting to get attached to this analogy.
Maybe there's a big sign out in front of the Grace-Alone store that says "No faith, no works, no service."
And the people coming in pretty much had faith, often up to their knees and with big jingly spurs on the side. But they kept showing up without their works on! They were like "Uh, don't these overalls count?"
So finally the proprietors had to stick up another sign, very attractive with pictures of big mesas and angry fully-clad Native Americans on it getting ready for a scalping, which said "Sorry folks, seriously, if you come in here without any works we are just going to have to ask you to leave. Signed, MR MORONI (the Manager)"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by Blue Jay, posted 11-23-2009 7:25 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
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