EvC Forum: What is the point of this forum?

Hi everyone
Firstly, just want that I will be taking part in the great debate, which i hope will be entertaining, stimulating, and helpful.

Now to the replies to my post.
Most of you seem to have missed the point and tended to either have a rant against creationists, explain social behaviour, or tell me your personal stance, none of which address that which i was talking about.

I've picked out a few points which portray this, and which show that there has been a lot of confusion (although I really don't know why??) I hope this post clarifys some things.

dwise writes:

I cannot accept the concept of human infallibility

Neither can I.

dwise writes:

No, science is not foolproof. But it is workable.

Yes, correct.

dwise writes:

Uh, no, that doesn't happen. If an idea has been discredited, then it does not persist.

I don't think you actually agree with your statement, do you? Presumably you think that creationism is such an idea.

Generally a quite angry post.

otto writes:

most remarkably, declare both a willingness to "adjust their models ... to accommodate new data" and a stubborn insistence that their singular interpretation of scripture must be TRUE (i.e. cannot be false, is unfalsifiable by mandate) while failing to acknowledge (or comprehend) this obvious self-contradiction.

A new topic, but just a quick note. The bible is not exhaustive knowledge i.e. It doesn't say everything about everything e.g. how to build a car. However it does contain sufficient knowledge which is true. So many models have a biblical conerstone which remains unchanged while the rest of the model may adapt according to the latest evidence.

Parasomnium writes:

And if your religion is true and there is an afterlife, you still won't experience the progress of society, because you will be somewhere else, won't you. So why should you care?

Among other reasons the best being: Because God cares.

percy writes:

The belief that we should not do other people harm isn't within atheism but within atheists

Exactly! We could also say; The belief that we should do other people harm isn't within atheism but may be within some atheists. There are no "rules" to atheistic morality.

percy writes:

..., as it is within most people. This belief is there whether you're religious or not.

Yes, because we have a conscience. However, we are also capable of superseding our conscience.

hyroglyphx writes:

Everyone has a choice, not just atheists.

Yes!

lyx2no writes:

Finally? Would you care to show me where anyone, save you, has said differently?

That was the whole point why I started down this track because of what was written in dwise's post:

dwise writes:

Now, here's the problem with creationist debates per se. The opponent is restricted to being truthful and scientifically correct, whereas the creationist can make whatever wild-ass claim he wants to make. It doesn't matter to the creationist how incredibly false his claims are, just so long as he deems that it sounds convincing. In contrast, the creationist's opponent has to remain truthfulness, which in a creationist debate is a distinct disadvantage.

lyx2no writes:

I couldn't say it was "wrong". As a tactic it depends on what one in trying to achieve.

Exactly!

onifre writes:

but, for us all to get along, we try to find common ground.

Again, in the grand scheme of things, as a little planet whirling round in space, why does it matter if we get along, or if we exist or not. It may matter to us as humans, but does the universe care if you exist? No, it doesn't care about anything because it can't think. As an atheist I'm guessing that you believe that your life has a localised significance, as you suggest later; "It does to me", but that in terms of the universe, you are actually insignificant. Am I right?

onifre writes:

Its not a "way of life,"

But it does influence how you live your life.

onifre writes:

No one is

Exactly, which has been my point. However, lying clashes with the christian belief, and so it is hypocritical. Atheism has no belief, so therefore lying is not hypocritical as such.

onifre writes:

Are you only honest because god tells you to be honest? That's pretty sad. Are you incapable of knowing right from wrong on your own? I can understand if you're a child and need guidance, but as an adult? You should know better on your own.

I have a conscience. However, you would say that our conscience evolved in order to survive. Right? But then is it wrong for someone to go against their conscience in order to become successful? For example, Genghis Khan and his descendants went around raping and pillaging, and in an evolutionary sense he was very, very successful leaving behind many descendants. However, he would have been going against his conscience or suppressing it, or probably just dulling it down. I guess this is what happens to murderers, etc. even today. I would say it is wrong to go against our conscience because it is God-given. What would you answer? Remembering that going against your conscience can mean that you are more "successful" in an evolutionary sense.

rahvin writes:

The answer is actually fairly simple. A true anarchic society is not self-sustainable. It simply doesn't work.

Again why does it have to "work"? Also see first reply to onifre in this post.

Has my post clarified things? i hope so. Again, my complaint was with the initial post by dwise which i found very offensive. In hindsight maybe i should have let the comment slide, but I hope this discussion hasn't been completly useless (coming back on topic

Is everything we are doing on here useless? Hmm...

you don't have to reply to that) at least I may have made things less "tame", which Otto Tellick seems to appreciate

. Think this will be the last post in this topic and will begin focusing on the Great Debate.

See ya all round,

Arphy.

p.s. If you're reading this slevesque could you flick me an email. Your address doesn't seem to be avaliable in the members area. Thanks.

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