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Author Topic:   Is God Evil?
Wotak
Junior Member (Idle past 1687 days)
Posts: 13
From: Detroit, MI
Joined: 10-25-2009


Message 166 of 179 (534139)
11-05-2009 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Peg
11-05-2009 1:16 AM


OT - The Sinner Gene Is Discovered!
Peg writes:

"sin is genetic...its a flaw that is passed on"

Peg writes:

"fortunately he did allow them to live and have children, but the consequence of that is that we were born with their genetic defect. Im sure you know that defects are passed along genetically from parents to children...mental defects are passed along just as personality traits are passed along and just as physical conditions are passed along.

I would like an in-depth lecture on this biological/genetic trait. I don't remember ever covering this in my years of biological study.

Could you please start a new thread to educate the masses on this great discovery of the sinner gene?

It almost sounds to me as if you've sort of taken Darwins theory and bastardized it into some sort of ridiculous ID type thing with less fact and even more ridiculous.

Can you elaborate?

Edited by Wotak, : Added second quote


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Peg, posted 11-05-2009 1:16 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3178
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 167 of 179 (534206)
11-05-2009 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by iano
11-05-2009 6:05 AM


Re: Balancing the see-saw of choice.
So they weren't human in the sense that we are human.

Are you suggesting we descended from non-humans?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by iano, posted 11-05-2009 6:05 AM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by iano, posted 11-06-2009 5:06 AM hooah212002 has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 1362 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 168 of 179 (534223)
11-05-2009 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by DevilsAdvocate
11-05-2009 7:28 AM


DevilsAdvocate writes:

How do you know Adam and Even were not 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, etc years old when they had children.

The account says they had intercourse AFTER they left the garden and cain was born. Sometime thereafter they had Able. They also had some daughters but by the age of 130yrs, the account says that Seth, the 3rd son was born.

We know that Seth came immediatiatly after Able becasue in Genesis 4:25  its says that after the death of Able, Eve had another son whom she said was appointed in place of Able.

"And Adam proceeded to have intercourse again with his wife and so she gave birth to a son and called his name Seth, because, as she said: “God has appointed another seed in place of Abel, because Cain killed him.

So this shows that Adams sons began with Cain, Able then Seth. And we are told that Adam was 130yrs of age when he had Seth.

Genesis 5:3 "And Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth"

For arguments sake im willing to say that they were 50 when they left Eden. They had no children in Eden so Cain was born when Adam was maybe 52 yrs old. There are 80 years before Seth the 3rd son is born as Genesis says Adam was 130yrs old.

Now how likely is it that out of all the children they could have had in 80 years, only 3 were male? Its highly unlikely that all the other children were girls. And in 80 years he could have had 40 children, thats 1 every 2 years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-05-2009 7:28 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-06-2009 5:25 AM Peg has responded

    
iano
Member (Idle past 78 days)
Posts: 6163
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 169 of 179 (534231)
11-06-2009 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by hooah212002
11-05-2009 6:25 PM


Re: Balancing the see-saw of choice.
Are you suggesting we descended from non-humans?

Define 'human' and the answer'd likely be no.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by hooah212002, posted 11-05-2009 6:25 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 5:52 AM iano has responded

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member
Posts: 1535
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 170 of 179 (534233)
11-06-2009 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Peg
11-05-2009 11:47 PM


Me writes:

How do you know Adam and Even were not 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, etc years old when they had children.

Peg writes:

The account says they had intercourse AFTER they left the garden and cain was born.

Yes, but the Bible does not say how old they were when they left Eden. You are totally fabricating an age to justify your baseless claim.

We know that Seth came immediatiatly after Able becasue in Genesis 4:25 its says that after the death of Able, Eve had another son whom she said was appointed in place of Able.

I am not arguing against this. I am asking why are you fabricating an age for when they left Eden. It is total conjecture.

For arguments sake im willing to say that they were 50 when they left Eden.

Where the heck did you pull up 50 years? Do you just make this shit up as you go?

Peg writes:

They had no children in Eden so Cain was born when Adam was maybe 52 yrs old. There are 80 years before Seth the 3rd son is born as Genesis says Adam was 130yrs old.

?? Where the heck did you get these numbers from? The only figure the Bible speaks of is that Seth is born when Adam was 130 years old.

Now how likely is it that out of all the children they could have had in 80 years, only 3 were male?

You are not very good with logic are you Peg. Let's analyze this shall we.

The average ratio for having boys and girls is roughly 51% boys to 49% girls as seen by a number of different studies (these two were was interesting: The Odds of Having a Boy or a Girl and Why do some families have all boys or all girls?). This percentage does not change with the number of children you have. That is with each birth the chance of having a boy or girl is nearly 50/50 (a flip of coin). Even if you look at the world population there is only a 0.8% difference between the number of males and the number of females in the world.

Furthermore, there are 8 possible outcomes for having 3 children (23=8):

B=Boy / G=Girl

BBB, GGG, BBG, BGB, BGG, GBB, GBG, GGB

Therefore the chances of having 3 boys back to back is 1/8 or 12.5% which is not very difficult odds.

However, we are not even 100% from the Biblical account that Adam and Even did not have other children inbetween Cain and Abel and their son Seth.

Its highly unlikely that all the other children were girls.

The Bible only mentions the firstborn male children to show a line of descendancy. Since Abel was killed and Cain was banished, Seth became that first-born for all intensive purposes. As to how many children and of what sex the other children Adam and Eve later had, the Bible is mute. So you have no clue how many children they had after Cain and Abel and before Seth or after Seth and what sex they were.

So stop making shit up.

And in 80 years he could have had 40 children, thats 1 every 2 years.

I give up. Just make the Bible say whatever you want it to say.

And you wonder why many of us are no longer religious. You argue against one of the most proven scientific theories in history accepted by well over 99% of all scientists worldwide and with mountains of emperical evidence and over 100 years of research and then you willy-nilly lie and fabricate out of thin air justifications, baseless claims for your made up religion. You even make up claims that even your very own religious book does not state. Amazing!


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Peg, posted 11-05-2009 11:47 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by AdminPD, posted 11-06-2009 5:43 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded
 Message 173 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 7:04 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 171 of 179 (534236)
11-06-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by DevilsAdvocate
11-06-2009 5:25 AM


Straying From Topic
Participants, please do not get bogged down in odd details of the A&E story beyond what is necessary for the topic.

Tie arguments back to the topic.

Thanks
AdminPD


Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate
This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-06-2009 5:25 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3178
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 172 of 179 (534237)
11-06-2009 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by iano
11-06-2009 5:06 AM


Re: Balancing the see-saw of choice.
Define 'human' and the answer'd likely be no.

You said A&E were'nt human. How could your answer be no? Or are you saying we aren't descended from A&E?

{ABE}oops, sorry PD.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by iano, posted 11-06-2009 5:06 AM iano has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by iano, posted 11-06-2009 7:21 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 1362 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 173 of 179 (534242)
11-06-2009 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by DevilsAdvocate
11-06-2009 5:25 AM


all i can say is that you are not very good with your logic

let me put it simply. If Adam was 130 years old when they had Seth, and Seth was the first male after the death of Able, then why is it impossible that Adam could have been over 100 years old when he left Eden?

Do you really think that in 30 years, Adam and Eve only had 3 children?

DevilsAdvocate writes:

Yes, but the Bible does not say how old they were when they left Eden. You are totally fabricating an age to justify your baseless claim.

It does not matter how old they were when they left eden...the fact is that Adam was 130yrs old when he had Seth who came directly after Able who came directly after Cain the firstborn.

Anyway, I did say I was speculating. No need to call me a liar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-06-2009 5:25 AM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-06-2009 7:19 AM Peg has responded

    
DevilsAdvocate
Member
Posts: 1535
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 174 of 179 (534243)
11-06-2009 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by Peg
11-06-2009 7:04 AM


let me put it simply. If Adam was 130 years old when they had Seth, and Seth was the first male after the death of Able, then why is it impossible that Adam could have been over 100 years old when he left Eden?

I never said it was impossible. I said it is unsubstantiated meaning we have no clue based on what is given in Genesis 1-5.

Do you really think that in 30 years, Adam and Eve only had 3 children?

What 30 years are you talking about? All it mentions is in Genesis 5 is that after Adam lived 130 years before he had Seth.

Do you really think that in 30 years, Adam and Eve only had 3 children?

Who knows? Maybe. Again it is pure speculation.

You made the statement, I quote "He was over 100 years old when he was expelled from Eden."

To me this tells me you are making a hard and fast statement. However, I will acquisce for the sake of not dragging this thread further off topic.


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 7:04 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 11:00 PM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 78 days)
Posts: 6163
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 175 of 179 (534315)
11-06-2009 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by hooah212002
11-06-2009 5:52 AM


Re: Balancing the see-saw of choice.
iano writes:

So they weren't human in the sense that we are human.

hooah writes:

You said A&E were'nt human. How could your answer be no? Or are you saying we aren't descended from A&E?

I was describing Adam and Eve in the garden at the time of their choosing. At that time "they weren't human in the sense that we are human". They didn't have a knowledge of good and evil at that point. We do.

We're descended from them. They were human in the same sense that we are human when their children were conceived. They had a knowledge of good and evil at that point. Just like their offspring - us.

Call it a family-trait if you like. Or a shared spiritual DNA

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 5:52 AM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 8:22 PM iano has not yet responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3178
Joined: 08-12-2009
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 176 of 179 (534322)
11-06-2009 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by iano
11-06-2009 7:21 PM


Re: Balancing the see-saw of choice.
So having less knowledge makes you less human? I want to hear YOUR definition of human ( I am a science minded individual, so im sure you can infer, at least I hope, what I define as human).

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by hooah212002, : clarification

Edited by hooah212002, : more clerical errors

Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by iano, posted 11-06-2009 7:21 PM iano has not yet responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 1362 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 177 of 179 (534338)
11-06-2009 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by DevilsAdvocate
11-06-2009 7:19 AM


DevilsAdvocate writes:

we have no clue based on what is given in Genesis 1-5.

i disagree

we do have clue.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 11-06-2009 7:19 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by saab93f, posted 12-18-2009 2:30 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
saab93f
Member
Posts: 188
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 178 of 179 (539648)
12-18-2009 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Peg
11-06-2009 11:00 PM


I am nothing short of appalled about the amount of support that is given to the atrocities of the OT. There is nor ever has been justification for the genocide. The lack of sympathy towards the children that were punished for the deeds of their parents is just mind-boggling.

An omnipotent creator...my ass. I do not think that history has ever "known" a bigger failure than that of abrahamic god.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Peg, posted 11-06-2009 11:00 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
jaywill
Member
Posts: 4120
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 179 of 179 (539660)
12-18-2009 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Larni
10-26-2009 10:14 AM


Re: The Book of God
I think your mother must have been an incredibly EVIL person.

Think of those days you didn't want to go to school so you could learn to write English. I bet you didn't want to go. Yet your mom, being eager to torture you made you go anyway.

Just as I thought, your moms must have been a sadistic and evil person to do these things.

I bet she changed your diaper when you would have much prefered to just sit around in your poop. I can see you crying there as she bent over the stink and sadistically tortured you.

Next time you go to the bathroom remember how utterly evil she was to not allow you just to deficate anywhere without the discomfort of a diaper change.

Very evil.

OFF TOPIC portions have been rendered invisible - Please Do Not Respond to these portions or continue in this vein. If you must read content, use the Peek button but do not respond.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Rude off topic remarks rendered invisible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Larni, posted 10-26-2009 10:14 AM Larni has not yet responded

  
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