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| Author | Topic: Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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greyseal Member (Idle past 879 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
You have heard about all the other sub-species in the genus homo? the ones that went extinct a mere few tens of thousands of years ago? yeah, that's the human ring-species you're talking about. Fact is, ring species doesn't have to occur, but when and where it does you'll see the proof. Whining that it doesn't happen if it hasn't happened to humans (when there is no driving NEED for it to happen to humans to prove it does or does not exist) is pointless, futile and pathetic. sorry.
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greyseal Member (Idle past 879 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
so...let me get this straight. donkeys and horses can hybridize (rarely naturally, more often with human intervention, with infertile offspring) - and so they're the same kind horses and zebras can hybridize (rarely naturally, more often with human intervention, with infertile offspring) - and so they're the same kind so horses, donkeys and zebras (at least) are all the same kind because they CAN interbreed (admittedly humans generally have to interfere, else it's really rare) but dogs and wolves, quite capable of interbreeding in the wild (although it's probably rare - although the famous story of balto would tell me that's a lie if you say it never happens) and definitely capable of interbreeding with FERTILE offspring are somehow NOT the same kind because, apparently, it's rare or doesn't happen in the wild and takes human intervention (allegedly) to happen. I'm sorry, ICANT, but I can't see the difference. is it that because dogs and wolves have fertile offspring that makes them different kinds? I mean...that doesn't really make sense. Please, shove that foot further in your mouth, it's getting entertaining again.
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ICANT Member  Posts: 5159 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
I have never said they are the same kind. In fact up thread I said there was an ass kind, a horse kind, and a zebra kind.
What does a Siberian husky work dog named baito have to do with wolves and dogs breeding in the wild? He himself was neutered. The Siberian husky breed was created by the Chukchi people of Russia. I did not say it was impossible for them to breed in the wild. But if you know anything about wild wolves you will know that it is very unlikely. Wolves run in packs. They select a mate for life. The young females are not allowed to mate with any of the mated males. This is controled by the females. The males will kill any that try to mate with their lady. No one from another pack is allowed to infiltrate the pack. Must less mate with their females. The dominate male enforces all rules., if necessary. A dog would stand little chance against a wild wolf, and would not be accepted into a pack. Now animals that are in the wild that have been altered by humans would be different. Would you agree that the 2 horses in my avatar are the same kind? The mare is 17 1/2" tall and weighs 57 pounds. Would it be possible for them to breed and produce offspring? They are both full grown horses of the same kind. God Bess, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 5159 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
I did not make anything explode. God had the animals He wanted on the ark arrive at the ark when it came time to board the ark. From those animals we have all animals that are on earth today and those who have gone extinct in the last 6k+ years. Any animal that was extinct prior to 6k+ years ago was not on the ark. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 665 days)  Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
Since male wolves leave the pack after about two years to start their own packs and the females tend to remain far longer any girl husky has her pick of wolf mates. Do you think a randy male wolf would reject a cute, little husky? You are now a million miles away from where you were in space-time when you started reading this sentence.
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ICANT Member Posts: 5159 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
From your article Wolf Dog Hybrids in the Wild quote: You don't call that human intrvention? This link does not work. Rare but it does happen Since I have never said that kinds could not cross breed and produce a new kind what does dingos and coyote's producing offspring have to do wth anything? If you breed dogs you get dogs. If you breed wolves you get wolves. If you breed wolves and dogs you get half wolf and half dog. Then you can call it whatever you want. But it is not a dog and neither is it a wolf. Some animals produce offspring that are sterile. Humans do the same. So what? Are they not human? God Bles, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Asgara Member  Posts: 1679 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Just showing that yes it does occur in the wild, and not just wolves and dogs.
By necessity, it would have to happen where there is a population of dogs, and populations of dogs generally happen near human habitation. No I do NOT call this human "intervention".
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greyseal Member (Idle past 879 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
and that dogs and wolves are the same "kind" for the same reason? so where do you set the line in the sand? I thought the definition of "kinds" was easy, straightforward and simple? so far, the secular scientific method holds all the points and your "kind" methodology has fallen before the first hurdle. it fell over before it got out the gate...
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 459 days)  Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
I'm trying to make sense of this. So: All kinds that exist today were on the ark. There are no such things as new kinds. A dog is a dog kind and a wolf is a wolf kind. Dogs and wolves are not of the same kind. Dogs and wolves can interbreed. Their offspring are not wolf kind nor are they dog kind. But in Message 62 you said:
So of what kind are these wolf-dogs? Did you just create a new kind or didn't you?
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greyseal Member (Idle past 879 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
THIS. wait, wait, I've got it, it's simple! some of the offspring are wolf-dogs (ergo are DOG kind) and some of them are dog-wolves (ergo are WOLF kind). they can interbreed quite happily but they're entirely different, separate kinds that are real easy to tell apart. honestly.
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Iblis Member (Idle past 332 days) Posts: 627 Joined: |
The point people are trying to draw to your attention is that wolves and dogs, cattle and bison, and most especially sheep and goats, appear to be different creatures due to general reproductive isolation but interbreed regularly and successfully wherever their populations overlap. This is exactly the same kind of behavior and relationship seen among the variety of human races.
This brings us on down to horses and donkeys. Because their populations were isolated for a very long time, they still interbreed (very willingly) but the offspring they produce are generally sterile. Does this make them not equine? If housecats and bobcats are different "kinds", then so are Negroes and Caucasians.
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jasonlang Member (Idle past 68 days) Posts: 44 From: Australia Joined: |
now, tell me which thing i have wrong here ?? I've numbered the points for simplicity 1. god created distinct kinds. 2. These kinds can never cross with other kinds 3. you listed dog kind and wolf kind as seperate kinds 4. point 3 contradicts point 2 and point 1, given that dogs and wolves can be crossed. 5. Conclusion : dogs and wolves must be the same kind (canine kind). I also provided the wiki diagram on canine hybrids. All these must be a single kind (maybe not foxes though).
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ICANT Member Posts: 5159 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 4.6 |
Why did you call this half breed a wolf dog? Instead of a wolf or dog? But if you breed two dogs you get dog pups after their kind. If you breed two wolves you get wolf pups after their kind. They never produce anything other than pups after their kind. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Blue Jay Member  Posts: 2609 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 459 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
It doesn't matter what I call it. I'm asking what YOU call it. You're not denying that wolves and dogs can interbreed. They can. But whatever this offspring of a dog and a wolf is, according to you, it's not a wolf kind and it's not a dog kind and it's not some new kind, so I ask again: What kind of animal is the offspring of a dog and a wolf?
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