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Author | Topic: Does Atheism = No beliefs? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
You're going to have a hard time backing off this CS, I understand, but, you are conflating the irreligious passion of some atheists with religious zeal. What's the difference between an "irreligious passion" vs a "religious zeal"? I don't see a difference at all. Is an irreligious passion less persuasive? Less political?
Religion has a well defined connotation in society. Atheist, like evolutionist or numismatist, no matter at what level of passion, does not fit. I think it has a very comparable connotation in society. When atheists are asked about themselves or when describing themselves, the subject of evolution will come up just as quickly as the subject of God will come up for a religious person. Prominent atheist people, whether a biologist like Richard Dawkins or a commedian like Bill Maher, always seem to have a politically liberal point of view. Is there a such thing as a radical right atheist? Here is the first paragraph from the Humanist Manifesto;
quote: Is there a single atheist who doesn't agree with this? Doesn't this unite them in a way comparable to religion?
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Yes. There are plenty of right wing atheists. Any well known ones, ones who broadcast their conservative opinions? I'm not taunting you - I'd honestly like to know. David Horowitz is an agnostic conservative, he's the only one I know of. But he's an agnostic in the true sense - not a lot of similarity between his agnosticism and atheism.
but the correct point that's been made repeatedly in this thread is that atheists are not united by any common philosophy or political beliefs. They're not united by evolution?
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
You are a dedicated theist. I understand this is difficult for you to wrap your mind around. You seem to need to see atheist as some sort of body of philosophical parameters. I don't "need" to see it, I just see it! I don't think anyone in this thread is saying all atheists are compelled or required to be liberals or militantly oppose religion, I'm just saying that atheism tends to organize its people in certain ways, with beliefs about how the world works or how society should function. There are respected polls that clearly show a correlation between science and atheism.
Each atheist chooses their own mix of philosophical tenants. Some are Humanists, some are epicurean, some are Spinozan, choose any one of a hundred philosophies. There are even atheist Republicans. Hell we're more fragmented than even you christians! I agree that Christians are fragmented. Hence the many descriptive terms, like "mainstream Christians", "fundie Christians", "theistic evolutionists" that are often found on message boards such as these. If atheists are more fragmented, how come we don't see references to "mainstream atheists", "fundie atheists", etc.? Don't you think it would be a good thing for atheists to be grouped like Christians often are, just for identification purposes? Would you mind the term "fundie atheists", for followers of people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, who want to see all religion "eradicated"?
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Atheism has little or nothing to do with evolution. ooookay.
PS, regarding your avatar; yes, twice, but my aim with a shoe is improving... Gotcha!! THAT'S what all atheists have in common, they ALL want to throw shoes at GW!!
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
I think the word 'religious' as used by CS CAN be appropriate when describing non-theistic beliefs. For example, if people venerate a belief system, use it to define their values, resist criticism of it and changes to it, and criticize or judge others who believe differently, then it's fair to call their attitude 'religious'.
VERY well stated. I don't think its completely fair for atheists to claim some kind of lofty, neutral position as they define and criticize politically with the same passion as religious people.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
peepul writes: marc9000 writes: I think it has a very comparable connotation in society. When atheists are asked about themselves or when describing themselves, the subject of evolution will come up just as quickly as the subject of God will come up for a religious person. Prominent atheist people, whether a biologist like Richard Dawkins or a commedian like Bill Maher, always seem to have a politically liberal point of view. Is there a such thing as a radical right atheist?
I don't agree with your first statement. Who brings up evolution? Is it the atheist or the person they are talking to? I don't bring it up when talking about myself.
From the opening post;
quote: There are exceptions to every rule of course, but most any atheist in today's society will make a beeline to evolution when asked about their view of the world. You're saying that a Christian could engage in a 5 or 10 minute conversation with you about human origins and you'd never say a word about evolution?
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
How many groups do you think non stamp collectors should be broken into. There are vegetarian non collectors; sadist non collectors; yippy non collectors; teetotaler non collectors; Rastafarian non collectors ? Non stamp collectors don't spend a sizable portion of their time criticizing and trying to eradicate stamp collecting, like Dawkins, Harris, and millions of atheists who buy their books spend time trying to eradicate religion.
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