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Author Topic:   Pre-Clovis People in America: The Solutrean Hypothesis
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9141
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4 of 18 (552208)
03-27-2010 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
03-26-2010 7:16 PM


Don't see the mounting evidence
The evidence does not appear to be mounting. There is the same evidence they started with and I do not see anything that has added to it.
The main premise behind the theory is the similarity of the Clovis tools to the earlier existing Solutrean tools. This theory seems similar to the theory that the Egyptians must have come to America because there are pyramids in Central America. Theories like this strike me as racial and elitist. The Clovis tools are similar to the Solutrean tools, there are marked differences though. There is no reason why the technology could not have developed in two places. This is not unheard of in history and even this day in age.
Here is some recent research that discounts this theory.
From 2008
Mitochondrial Population Genomics Supports a Single Pre-Clovis Origin with a Coastal Route for the Peopling of the Americas
quote:
However, the differential pattern of distribution and frequency of haplogroup X led some to suggest that it may represent an independent migration to the Americas. Here we show, by using 86 complete mitochondrial genomes, that all Native American haplogroups, including haplogroup X, were part of a single founding population, thereby refuting multiple-migration models.
Also, from 2008
The Solutrean Atlantic Hypothesis: A View from the Ocean
quote:
One current hypothesis for the Pleistocene peopling of the Americas invokes a dispersal by European hunter-gatherers along a biologically productive corridor situated on the edge of the sea-ice that filled the Atlantic Ocean during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM). In this paper, we assert that critical paleoceanographic data underpinning this hypothesis has not yet been examined in sufficient detail. To this end, we present data which show that the corridor may not have existed, and that, if it did, its suitability as a migration route is highly questionable.
quote:
it is clear from the paleoceanographic and paleo-environmental data that the LGM North Atlantic does not fit the descriptions provided by the proponents of the Solutrean Atlantic Hypothesis. Although ice use and sea mammal hunting may have been important in other contexts, in this instance, the conditions militate against an ice-edge-following, maritime-adapted European population reaching the Americas.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-26-2010 7:16 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Coyote, posted 03-27-2010 12:05 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 6 by Blue Jay, posted 03-27-2010 12:24 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-27-2010 10:48 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9141
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 8 of 18 (552214)
03-27-2010 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Blue Jay
03-27-2010 12:24 PM


Re: Don't see the mounting evidence
Nobody proposes an Egypt-Maya connection because they think Native Americans are too stupid to have come up with pyramids and hieroglyphics on their own:
I am not saying many professional archaeologists and anthropologists hold these views. But the maya/egyptian connection has been well accepted in the psuedoscientific circles and a number of them have a very racist tenor to them.
This Solutrean theory is based upon the premise that the Clovis culture could not have developed on its own. Theerfore people are looking for ways to force things like the Solutrean tools into the Clovis world. I just question whether Clovis had to have a european influence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Blue Jay, posted 03-27-2010 12:24 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9141
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 11 of 18 (552277)
03-27-2010 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
03-27-2010 10:48 PM


Re: Don't see the mounting evidence
Regardless, their is a growing number of dissenters who are actually considering the Pre-Clovis theory.
First of all what do you mean by pre-clovis. I think there are a lot of people that do not subscribethat the first peoples in america were clovis. I think even using the term like that may be bad form. I am not sure but I do not think it is highly disputed that there were humans in america pre-clovis. Maybe Coyote can fill us in on this. But because there may be a pre-clovis influx does not mean that the Solutrean idea is valid.
Also, I stand by my comments that the only thing backing the Solutrean Hypothesis is similarity of tools. You stated there is a growing body of evidence, but have not shown any. Is there a growing body of evidence? If so I do not see it. Please share.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-27-2010 10:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Coyote, posted 03-27-2010 11:45 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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