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Author Topic:   Fossils, strata and the flood
ICANT
Member (Idle past 1 days)
Posts: 5182
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 16 of 163 (558373)
04-30-2010 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by RAZD
04-30-2010 7:58 PM


Re fossils
Hi RAZD,

I hope you are feeling well these days.

RAZD writes:

And that the flood lasted for hundreds of years, so that the multiple strata could be built up, generation after generation after generation.

Along with the slow change in species from layer to layer, perfectly sorted.

I take it you did not read the post subbie was responding too.

Else why would you respond to subbie as you did.

Was it just to pile on the creationist?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by RAZD, posted 04-30-2010 7:58 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
subbie
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 17 of 163 (558375)
04-30-2010 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ICANT
04-30-2010 10:08 PM


Re: Re fossils
If that is not a fact then will you explain how they got there?

I did.

The mountains weren't always that high.

Read much?


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ICANT, posted 04-30-2010 10:08 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ICANT, posted 05-01-2010 12:11 AM subbie has responded

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 1118 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 18 of 163 (558377)
04-30-2010 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ICANT
04-30-2010 10:08 PM


No Flood
Is it a fact that all those fossils were deposited there when the mountains were covered with water?

The mountain was never covered by water, ICANT. The sea bed was covered by water. The sea bed was then pushed up above sea level by tectonic activity. The rock fractured and eroded as it rose. The rock that remained, if forced up high enough, is the mountain.

This is the important part. The water was not miles higher: The rock was miles lower.


While we're here, anything to say about your behavior over on the Thread For the Benefit of ICANT - About lightning? It was, like, for your benefit, and stuff and junk. How about some closure, ICANT?


"Mom! Ban Ki-moon made a non-binding resolution at me." Mohmoud Ahmadinejad
This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ICANT, posted 04-30-2010 10:08 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ICANT, posted 05-01-2010 12:06 AM lyx2no has not yet responded
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 05-01-2010 12:27 AM lyx2no has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 1 days)
Posts: 5182
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 19 of 163 (558383)
05-01-2010 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by lyx2no
04-30-2010 10:47 PM


Re: No Flood
Hi lyx2no,

lyx2no writes:

This is the important part. The water was not miles higher: The rock was miles lower.

Where did I say the water was miles higher?

I said the fossils in and on the mountains declare that they were covered with water at one time.

I lived on the top of a mountain in the Caribbean sea for a long time it was called Grand Cayman. That mountain is several thousand feet high but very little sticks out of the water.

You answered my questions so I am satisfied.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by lyx2no, posted 04-30-2010 10:47 PM lyx2no has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member (Idle past 1 days)
Posts: 5182
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 20 of 163 (558384)
05-01-2010 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by subbie
04-30-2010 10:35 PM


Re fossils
Hi subbie,

subbie writes:

The mountains weren't always that high.

Were they covered by water?

Have you forgotten my avatar with the land all in one place that I said was only 2 feet above sea level and therefore would not take much water to cover it?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by subbie, posted 04-30-2010 10:35 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by subbie, posted 05-01-2010 12:16 AM ICANT has responded

    
subbie
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 21 of 163 (558385)
05-01-2010 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ICANT
05-01-2010 12:11 AM


Re: Re fossils
Were they covered by water?

Not when they were mountains. Was the land that is now on top of the mountain ever covered in water? Yes, when it was at the bottom of a sea.

Have you forgotten my avatar with the land all in one place that I said was only 2 feet above sea level and therefore would not take much water to cover it?

Yes. I try not to clutter my mind up with valueless nonsense, although sometimes a bit sticks on until I can clean it off with mental toilet paper. Your prior avatar doesn't happen to have been one such sticky bit.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ICANT, posted 05-01-2010 12:11 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by ICANT, posted 05-01-2010 1:36 AM subbie has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 15989
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 22 of 163 (558386)
05-01-2010 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by lyx2no
04-30-2010 10:47 PM


Flood evidence is everywhere you look
There were no high mountains before the Flood. The land was relatively flat, with just some low hills. The Flood then covered it all, dissolved and broke it all up and separated out the various sediments which it redeposited in the strata -- ALL the strata -- no strata could have been formed apart from the Flood. They are worldwide, they are composed of separate sediments, they are all packed full of fossilized life forms. All the living things died at the same time just as God said they would, and were fossilized because the conditions were perfect for fossilization and otherwise such conditions hardly ever occur. They are there as a witness to the Flood for those who have the eyes to see. There is no other way the strata and fossils could have been formed but by a worldwide Flood, the only kind of event capable of doing all that.

After the Flood or as part of that whole period of upheaval, the continents broke apart, magma from the Earth's interior pushed up the volcanoes, tectonic forces raised the mountains. The mountains too were all made up of the strata laid down by the Flood and packed with the dead things that all the strata are packed with. So we find marine creatures in the high mountains.

Witness the lack of strata on the nearly uniform sphere of Mars for comparison. I'm not sure about other planets but aren't they more or less the same in this respect? Mars for sure had no planet-wide Flood and therefore no strata. It's pretty much a bald sphere except for the scars where pieces of flying space debris have collided with it, sometimes releasing magma from the interior in volcanoes and jostling the crust a bit too, but without anything to compare with the tectonic breakup on Earth.

Everything points to a worldwide Flood on Earth for a rational person who just looks at the evidence.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by lyx2no, posted 04-30-2010 10:47 PM lyx2no has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by DrJones*, posted 05-01-2010 12:46 AM Faith has responded
 Message 25 by Vacate, posted 05-01-2010 2:56 AM Faith has responded
 Message 26 by cavediver, posted 05-01-2010 2:58 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 41 by Coyote, posted 05-01-2010 11:50 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 42 by bluescat48, posted 05-01-2010 12:01 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 45 by RAZD, posted 05-01-2010 1:28 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 53 by Kitsune, posted 05-01-2010 4:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1551
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 23 of 163 (558387)
05-01-2010 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
05-01-2010 12:27 AM


Re: Flood evidence is everywhere you look
Witness the lack of strata on the nearly uniform sphere of Mars for comparison.

Care to provide a link to some large scale geological exploration of Mars?

It's pretty much a bald sphere except for the scars where pieces of flying space debris have collided with it, sometimes releasing magma from the interior in volcanoes and jostling the crust a bit too, but without anything to compare with the tectonic breakup on Earth.

Yes Mars is just a bald sphere, it certainly doesn't have a mountain thrice the height of Everest. Olympus Mons is right here on Earth. And it doesn't have canyon systems either, afterall the Valles Marineris is greater than anything on Mars.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 05-01-2010 12:27 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 05-01-2010 8:16 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 1 days)
Posts: 5182
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 24 of 163 (558389)
05-01-2010 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by subbie
05-01-2010 12:16 AM


Re fossils
Hi subbie,

subbie writes:

Not when they were mountains. Was the land that is now on top of the mountain ever covered in water? Yes, when it was at the bottom of a sea.

Are you trying to tell me there are no mountains in the ocean?

I thought the longest mountain range on earth was the mid-ocean ridge, Spanning 65000 kilometers.

I am glad that you would admit that the fossils got in and on the mountains when they were covered with water. BTW they did not have to be at the bottom of the ocean, they only had to be covered by water.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by subbie, posted 05-01-2010 12:16 AM subbie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Vacate, posted 05-01-2010 3:21 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 29 by lyx2no, posted 05-01-2010 3:27 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Vacate
Member (Idle past 1002 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 25 of 163 (558394)
05-01-2010 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
05-01-2010 12:27 AM


Flood evidence is everywhere you look on MARS!!
There is no other way the strata and fossils could have been formed but by a worldwide Flood, the only kind of event capable of doing all that

So the only thing capable of making strata and fossils is a worldwide flood? How does one twist their mind around this so it makes some sort of sense?

What properties of the water differ in that "worldwide" water is capable of forming strata and fossils but not local water or localized flooding? Where/when does the magic happen, when the water hits worldwide status or was it just magical water only at that point in time?

After the Flood or as part of that whole period of upheaval, the continents broke apart, magma from the Earth's interior pushed up the volcanoes, tectonic forces raised the mountains.

Did the magic water cause the magma and tectonic forces? Why do volcanoes and tectonic forces exist on other planets if they had not first been exposed to the magic water or magic times?

Witness the lack of strata on the nearly uniform sphere of Mars for comparison.

First you have to look, you apparently haven't.

Mars for sure had no planet-wide Flood and therefore no strata.

There is plenty of strata on Mars and therefore, by your logic, once had a planetwide flood.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 05-01-2010 12:27 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-01-2010 3:23 AM Vacate has responded
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 05-01-2010 8:29 AM Vacate has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 45 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 26 of 163 (558396)
05-01-2010 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
05-01-2010 12:27 AM


Re: Flood evidence is everywhere you look
Flood evidence is everywhere you look

The great thing about this post is it makes Faith's speciation/genetics beliefs appear to be the epitome of rationality

After the Flood or as part of that whole period of upheaval, the continents broke apart, magma from the Earth's interior pushed up the volcanoes, tectonic forces raised the mountains.

Wow, the Sumerians must have had a great view of all this

Bah, they had all the fun:

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 05-01-2010 12:27 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Vacate
Member (Idle past 1002 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 27 of 163 (558398)
05-01-2010 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by ICANT
05-01-2010 1:36 AM


Re: Re fossils
I am glad that you would admit that the fossils got in and on the mountains when they were covered with water. BTW they did not have to be at the bottom of the ocean, they only had to be covered by water.

Fossils don't form in mountains just because you cover them with water. A flood that drops an elephant on the top of a mountain will not insert it into the rock. You can have a flood that drops an elephant in the dirt, the dirt turns to stone, the stone is uplifted and may eventually become a mountain.

I think that the main reason that subbie or anyone would "admit" that various fossils found in mountains were once under water is because the vast majorty of those fossils found are sea creatures. The admission is not quite what you seem to think. Fossils in mountains don't require water to form, fossils of sea creatures require water to form. Seeing a bunch of fossilized sea creatures is a good indication that the material was once under water, its no indicator at all that water dropped animals on mountains.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ICANT, posted 05-01-2010 1:36 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3240
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 28 of 163 (558399)
05-01-2010 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Vacate
05-01-2010 2:56 AM


It is said: There is plenty of strata on Mars...
There is plenty of strata on Mars...

References please. My guess is that you're blowing unsubstantiated smoke.

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Vacate, posted 05-01-2010 2:56 AM Vacate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Vacate, posted 05-01-2010 3:37 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

    
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 1118 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 29 of 163 (558400)
05-01-2010 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by ICANT
05-01-2010 1:36 AM


Mischaracterize Much
Are you trying to tell me there are no mountains in the ocean?

All the mountains at the bottom of the ocean are volcanic and have no fossils.

I am glad that you would admit that the fossils got in and on the mountains when they were covered with water.

There weren't any mountains getting fossils in and on them. There was a sea bed being buried by sediments being washed from the land. The sediments bury the shallow ocean community: reefs, clams and plankton ooze. Nearly nothing bigger then a pinhead gets fossilized in the depths of the ocean; sedimentation is too slow.

BTW they did not have to be at the bottom of the ocean, they only had to be covered by water.

This is one of your problems: you make half statements. What exactly do you mean by this? If I point out that giant freshwater lakes tend to be geologically short lived you'll reply with "Who said anything about fresh water lakes?" Not you. You don't actually say anything.

Another important bit: The mountains were never covered by water. They didn't exist when the water was there. The water had been gone for millions of years before the mountains existed.

You answered my questions so I am satisfied.

Not to sound like your wife, but as long as you're satisfied I guess we're done.



See ya' off Cuttyhunk, I'm going fishin'.


"Mom! Ban Ki-moon made a non-binding resolution at me." Mohmoud Ahmadinejad
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ICANT, posted 05-01-2010 1:36 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Vacate
Member (Idle past 1002 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 30 of 163 (558401)
05-01-2010 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Minnemooseus
05-01-2010 3:23 AM


Re: It is said: There is plenty of strata on Mars...
References please

I read the definition here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum

And thought of this image here : http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/08/01/

If my use of that word is incorrect I will retract my statement. I don't smoke, but I do make mistakes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-01-2010 3:23 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Percy, posted 05-01-2010 6:22 AM Vacate has responded

  
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